The status of C

[Martin Johansen]

Hey guys

Since C is my language of choice for almost any kind of application, I'd
like to know what the status of C is around the world today.

And I am ofcourse not talking about C++ or C#. I think the lack of object
orientation and garbage collection causes better programming discipline
needed for harder projects anyway.

Is C still the language of choice for serious programming?

Which businesses favour C, e.g. game, driver, os, device or even web
developement?

Is C on the decline?

Thanks!

[Thomas Matthews]

Martin Johansen wrote:

Hey guys

Since C is my language of choice for almost any kind of application, I'd
like to know what the status of C is around the world today. The C language wasn't working around 2:45 GMT today for about an hour,
but it is fixed now.

And I am ofcourse not talking about C++ or C#. I think the lack of object
orientation and garbage collection causes better programming discipline
needed for harder projects anyway.

Is C still the language of choice for serious programming? Hmmm, define "serious" programming.

Many shops use the language defined by management for various reasons,
some of those reasons are the current fad language. Other shops use
a language that has a specification, many different compiler vendors,
and isn't going to change radically soon.

Which businesses favour C, e.g. game, driver, os, device or even web
developement? You can find businesses in all those categories that favor and disfavor
the C language.

What are you really driving at?

Is C on the decline? Yes. Just last week, the printf statement was deteriorating and
wouldn't print the 4 parameter. I had to find a language hospital
and finally got the recipe for fixing it. It works now, but my
memcpy is starting to fail...


Thanks!

BTW, IMHO, you should use a language that helps produce the product
in the fastest manner with the highest quality. If you have to call
on archeologists to find it, then so be it. If everybody in the shop
knows the M language then that may be the one to use.

Perhaps you should scan the newsgroups and read all the articles
about the decline of the C language. Also, try searching before
you post.

--
Thomas Matthews

C++ newsgroup welcome message:
http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
C++ Faq: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite
C Faq: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/c-faq/top.html
alt.comp.lang.l earn.c-c++ faq:
http://www.comeaucomputing.com/learn/faq/
Other sites:
http://www.josuttis.com -- C++ STL Library book
http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl -- Standard Template Library

[Paul Mesken]

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:18:43 +0200, "Martin Johansen" <mf**@online.no >
wrote:

Hey guys

Since C is my language of choice for almost any kind of application, I'd
like to know what the status of C is around the world today.

And I am ofcourse not talking about C++ or C#. I think the lack of object
orientation and garbage collection causes better programming discipline
needed for harder projects anyway.
I think discipline is even more important with languages that are not
OOP. But for medium to big projects (those that result in more than
10,000 lines of code, to give a rough idea) I'd favor C++.
Is C still the language of choice for serious programming?
Depends on what you call "serious programming".
Which businesses favour C, e.g. game, driver, os, device or even web
developement ?
I'd say writing device drivers, OS, embedded systems, etc. A lot of
games are written in C++ nowadays (and often some Assembly is thrown
in). There are specialized languages for web development. I wouldn't
want to make a site with C.
Is C on the decline?

C has a lot of competition of C++. At least where I live, companies
hardly ever ask for C programmers anymore but there is a substantial
demand for C++ programmers.

Note also that the language is not the only thing that is asked for.
For example : companies not only ask for a C++ programmer, they ask
for a MSVC++.not programmer.

[#2pencil]

I use c to write cgi programs on my web-server. It's simple, it gets
the job done, & time isn't that much of an issue.

For user interface programs I use C++/ASM.

[Martin Johansen]

> But for medium to big projects (those that result in more than

10,000 lines of code, to give a rough idea) I'd favor C++.

Is that because objects reduce the amount of code or because objects are
easier to deal with at this level?

[jacob navia]

Martin Johansen wrote:

Hey guys

Since C is my language of choice for almost any kind of application, I'd
like to know what the status of C is around the world today.

And I am ofcourse not talking about C++ or C#. I think the lack of object
orientation and garbage collection causes better programming discipline
needed for harder projects anyway.

Is C still the language of choice for serious programming?

Which businesses favour C, e.g. game, driver, os, device or even web
developement?

Is C on the decline?

Thanks!

What garbage collection is concerned, lcc-win32 (1) provides a garbage
collector as part of the standard distribution.

Gcc and most C implementations
can use a garbage collector without any problems, even if they do not
provide one with their systems.

The lack of object orientation is (in my opinion) not a bug but a
feature. I work routinely in OO projects today, either rewriting them
in C, or having to cope with the bloat.

As of today, I have two big projects of this type running. People will
realize sooner than later that bloatware is expensive.

Of course you can write good software in any language, even GWBASIC,
but it is harder.

(1) http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32

[Emmanuel Delahaye]

Martin Johansen wrote on 09/06/05 :

Since C is my language of choice for almost any kind of application, I'd like
to know what the status of C is around the world today.

I (Paris, France) work on embedded systems for telecom (MPC, Xscale,
DSP, Embedded Linux) C is not an option. Additionally, I like it.

--
Emmanuel
The C-FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/faq.html
The C-library: http://www.dinkumware.com/refxc.html

I once asked an expert COBOL programmer, how to
declare local variables in COBOL, the reply was:
"what is a local variable?"

[Jonathan Bartlett]

> C has a lot of competition of C++. At least where I live, companies

hardly ever ask for C programmers anymore but there is a substantial
demand for C++ programmers.

Of course, a lot of this is just for C programmers who are working with
a C++ compiler. A lot of C++ code is just C code, and C99 removed a lot
of the reasons to use C++ for non-OO work.

A lot of people use more or less a C subset of C++, with a few classes
thrown in when appropriate, or when demanded by third-party apps.

Personally, I wouldn't ever touch C++ for large projects -- it's just
too hard to track down exactly what the compiler is doing at any given
point, especially when it comes to casting, generating temporaries and
intermediates, and passing parameters. You have to pretty much have the
entire code base memorized before being certain of what any given line
of code does, even just a simple assignment.

Personally, for OO stuff, I prefer things such as Python, or for times
when I need to do really tricky stuff I like to go Scheme.

Jon
----
Learn to program using Linux assembly language
http://www.cafeshops.com/bartlettpublish.8640017

[Robert W Hand]

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 22:37:20 +0200, "Emmanuel Delahaye"
<em***@YOURBRAn oos.fr> wrote:

I (Paris, France) work on embedded systems for telecom (MPC, Xscale,
DSP, Embedded Linux) C is not an option.

Just a clarification. Do you mean that only C is allowed or that C is
not allowed to be used in your work? I understand that you do not
have a choice, but I can only guess that you must use it. (?)

--

Best wishes,

Bob

[Richard Harter]

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:03:29 +0200, Paul Mesken <us*****@eurone t.nl>
wrote:

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:18:43 +0200, "Martin Johansen" <mf**@online.no >
wrote:

Hey guys

Since C is my language of choice for almost any kind of application, I'd
like to know what the status of C is around the world today.

And I am ofcourse not talking about C++ or C#. I think the lack of object
orientation and garbage collection causes better programming discipline
needed for harder projects anyway.
I think discipline is even more important with languages that are not
OOP. But for medium to big projects (those that result in more than
10,000 lines of code, to give a rough idea) I'd favor C++.

Isn't that a no-op? I hear tell that one can't write a C++ program
that doesn't take at least 10,000 lines.

Is C still the language of choice for serious programming?

Depends on what you call "serious programming".

Which businesses favour C, e.g. game, driver, os, device or even web
developemen t?

I'd say writing device drivers, OS, embedded systems, etc. A lot of
games are written in C++ nowadays (and often some Assembly is thrown
in). There are specialized languages for web development. I wouldn't
want to make a site with C.

Is C on the decline?

C has a lot of competition of C++. At least where I live, companies
hardly ever ask for C programmers anymore but there is a substantial
demand for C++ programmers.

Note also that the language is not the only thing that is asked for.
For example : companies not only ask for a C++ programmer, they ask
for a MSVC++.not programmer.

I do hope that MSVC++.not programmer was intentional. If not, it was
a magnificently freudian typo.

Richard Harter, cr*@tiac.net
http://home.tiac.net/~cri, http://www.varinoma.com
Save the Earth now!!
It's the only planet with chocolate.