English language question

[jacob navia]

The english word "Initialize d" exists. (Cambridge dictionary finds it).
The word "Uninitiali zed" doesn't seem to exist, and no dictionary
has it. I am using that word very often in my tutorial of the C language
with

"uninitiali zed memory".

Word flags this as a spelling error and tells me that the correct spelling
is

"uninitiali sed" with s
and NOT
"uninitiali zed" with z.

Can anyone here tell me what word should be used in correct english?

Thanks in advance

jacob

[Dan Pop]

In <35************ *************** *****@4ax.com> Jack Klein <ja*******@spam cop.net> writes:

On 21 Jun 2004 12:16:43 GMT, Da*****@cern.ch (Dan Pop) wrote in
comp.lang.c:

In <0g************ *************** *****@4ax.com> Jack Klein <ja*******@spam cop.net> writes:

>I would suggest using the 'z' for consistency with the spelling of the
>related words that are in the standard.
Nonsense! The C standard doesn't define the English language. Use
whatever version you prefer, as long as you're consistent, i.e. you don't
spell "initialization " and "organisati on".

Dan

You are absolutely correct. If Jacob does not mind being
inconsistent , he can use "uninitialised" . But if he uses
"initialisatio n" or "initialise d" he is using terms not defined in the
standard, not by BSI, ANSI, or ISO.

6.7.8 of the current standard defines "initialization ". It does not
define "initialisation ", even if, according to you, they mean the same
thing in English.

If they mean the same thing, then the definition of one word applies to
the other.
You of all people should know that the standard says exactly what it
literally says, no more and no less.

Indeed. However, I have enough brain cells to be able to tell the
difference between semantic issues and spelling issues. It is sheer
stupidity to insist that the *only* spelling that should be used in a C
language context is the one used by the C standard.

I don't use the American spelling (I've learned English in Europe), yet
no one complained (until now ;-) about not being able to understand my
posts because my spelling doesn't match the one used by the C standard.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Da*****@ifh.de

[Richard Bos]

Allin Cottrell <co******@wfu.e du> wrote:

Richard Bos wrote:

Allin Cottrell <co******@wfu.e du> wrote:

Word is apparently set to approve only British English.

"Uninitialize d" is perfectly OK American/international English.

Erm, it is a typical USAnian misapprehension that theirs is the
"internatio nal" version of the language. It isn't. I learned proper
English at school - the original, international kind.

I'm a Brit moi-meme, but it's only realism to recognize that the
"English" that constitutes an international language in the
21st century is primarily American English.

How do you explain, then, that I learned English, not USAnian?

Richard

[Andrew]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 00:48:06 GMT, CBFalconer <cb********@yah oo.com>
wrote:

Dan Pop wrote:

Jack Klein <ja*******@spam cop.net> writes:

I would suggest using the 'z' for consistency with the spelling
of the related words that are in the standard.

Nonsense! The C standard doesn't define the English language.
Use whatever version you prefer, as long as you're consistent,
i.e. you don't spell "initialization " and "organisati on".

However Canadians are naturally confused, being simultaneously
attacked from childhood on all spelling fronts by intolerant
adjacent spellmeisters. This will not be resolved until we
acheive Canadian hegemony. :-) (and then we have to worry about
Quebec).

Personally, I keep hope that they'll finally separate and we'll be rid
of them. So long as they take their politicians with them. :)

Unfortunately, if they separate, Quebec still wants the rest of Canada
to foot their bills.

Even more unfortunately, this is entirely off-topic, so I'll stop now.
;)

--
Andrew

[Alan Balmer]

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:53:12 +0200, "jacob navia"
<ja***@jacob.re mcomp.fr> wrote:

The english word "Initialize d" exists. (Cambridge dictionary finds it).
The word "Uninitiali zed" doesn't seem to exist, and no dictionary
has it. I am using that word very often in my tutorial of the C language
with

"uninitializ ed memory".

Word flags this as a spelling error and tells me that the correct spelling
is

"uninitialised " with s
and NOT
"uninitialized " with z.

Can anyone here tell me what word should be used in correct english?

Whichever way you like - it's a British/USA difference which most
people won't worry about. Personally, I spell it both ways, though
usually not in the same document ;-)

If you look under the tools->language menu in Word, you'll find at
least a dozen varieties of "English" to choose from.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
re************* ***********@att .net

[Alan Balmer]

On 21 Jun 2004 20:58:39 -0700, jj*@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell) wrote:

[It's ironic that American English seems to suffer much more from
French corruption these days. It always tickles me when I hear
Americans pronounce words such as 'valet', 'fillet' and 'herb' as
if they were modern French -

I'm not sure what you mean. I (and everyone I know) pronounce these
words as if they were American English, which they are, regardless of
their origin.

Nobody who uses valet service, or orders a fillet of fish, is under
the illusion that they're speaking French. In fact, you'd probably
find few US citizens who could tell you anything about "modern French"
pronunciation, and even fewer who could distinguish it from "ancient
French" pronunciation.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
re************* ***********@att .net

[Joona I Palaste]

Alan Balmer <al******@att.n et> scribbled the following:

On 21 Jun 2004 20:58:39 -0700, jj*@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell) wrote:

[It's ironic that American English seems to suffer much more from
French corruption these days. It always tickles me when I hear
Americans pronounce words such as 'valet', 'fillet' and 'herb' as
if they were modern French -

I'm not sure what you mean. I (and everyone I know) pronounce these
words as if they were American English, which they are, regardless of
their origin. Nobody who uses valet service, or orders a fillet of fish, is under
the illusion that they're speaking French. In fact, you'd probably
find few US citizens who could tell you anything about "modern French"
pronunciation, and even fewer who could distinguish it from "ancient
French" pronunciation.

I am unaware of the difference between ancient and modern French
pronunciations, but I am annoyed by English-speakers trying to
pronounce German words like they were English. For example "Stein"
should be pronounced to rhyme with "mine", not with "spleen" like some
native English speakers insist on pronouncing it. I know it ruins a
good joke based on a brand of baked beans, but I care more about
correct pronunciation than one silly joke.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pa*****@cc.hel sinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"Ice cream sales somehow cause drownings: both happen in summer."
- Antti Voipio & Arto Wikla

[Hamish Reid]

In article <js************ *************** *****@4ax.com>,
Alan Balmer <al******@att.n et> wrote:

On 21 Jun 2004 20:58:39 -0700, jj*@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell) wrote:

[It's ironic that American English seems to suffer much more from
French corruption these days. It always tickles me when I hear
Americans pronounce words such as 'valet', 'fillet' and 'herb' as
if they were modern French -

I'm not sure what you mean. I (and everyone I know) pronounce these
words as if they were American English, which they are, regardless of
their origin.

Nobody who uses valet service, or orders a fillet of fish, is under
the illusion that they're speaking French. In fact, you'd probably
find few US citizens who could tell you anything about "modern French"
pronunciation, and even fewer who could distinguish it from "ancient
French" pronunciation.

*Every time* I (as a Briton living in the US) have asked why herb is
pronounced "erb", or fillet as "fill-eh" out here (California), I've
been told by native Californian-English speakers it's because they're
French words and should be pronounced as such.

This has been happening for 15 years now. It never ceases to amaze me.

Hamish

[Stephen Sprunk]

"Joona I Palaste" <pa*****@cc.hel sinki.fi> wrote in message
news:cb******** **@oravannahka. helsinki.fi...

I am unaware of the difference between ancient and modern French
pronunciations, but I am annoyed by English-speakers trying to
pronounce German words like they were English. For example "Stein"
should be pronounced to rhyme with "mine", not with "spleen" like some
native English speakers insist on pronouncing it. I know it ruins a
good joke based on a brand of baked beans, but I care more about
correct pronunciation than one silly joke.

English-only speakers should not be expected to know the German rules for
pronouncing ei vs. ie. In various English words both combinations can be
pronounced both ways, and the origin of words is so muddied that most
English speakers just memorize the pronunciation for each word instead of
determining its origin and trying to apply the rules for that language (as
if we can keep track of the rules of dozens of languages we borrow words
from).

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov

[Alan Balmer]

On 22 Jun 2004 17:25:19 GMT, Joona I Palaste <pa*****@cc.hel sinki.fi>
wrote:

Alan Balmer <al******@att.n et> scribbled the following:

On 21 Jun 2004 20:58:39 -0700, jj*@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell) wrote:

[It's ironic that American English seems to suffer much more from
French corruption these days. It always tickles me when I hear
Americans pronounce words such as 'valet', 'fillet' and 'herb' as
if they were modern French -

I'm not sure what you mean. I (and everyone I know) pronounce these
words as if they were American English, which they are, regardless of
their origin.

Nobody who uses valet service, or orders a fillet of fish, is under
the illusion that they're speaking French. In fact, you'd probably
find few US citizens who could tell you anything about "modern French"
pronunciation, and even fewer who could distinguish it from "ancient
French" pronunciation.

I am unaware of the difference between ancient and modern French
pronunciations , but I am annoyed by English-speakers trying to
pronounce German words like they were English. For example "Stein"
should be pronounced to rhyme with "mine", not with "spleen" like some
native English speakers insist on pronouncing it.

Actually, I've never heard the "spleen" pronunciation, but you've
missed the point. When an English-speaker says "Give me a stein of
beer", he's not speaking German, he's speaking English, and German
rules of pronunciation have no bearing on the matter.
I know it ruins a
good joke based on a brand of baked beans, but I care more about
correct pronunciation than one silly joke.

Tell us the joke?

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
re************* ***********@att .net

[Stephen Sprunk]

"Hamish Reid" <ha*******@panx yzdemoniazyx.in valid> wrote in message
news:ha******** *************** ******@news.sup ernews.com...

In article <js************ *************** *****@4ax.com>,
Alan Balmer <al******@att.n et> wrote:

On 21 Jun 2004 20:58:39 -0700, jj*@bcs.org.uk (J. J. Farrell) wrote:

[It's ironic that American English seems to suffer much more from
French corruption these days. It always tickles me when I hear
Americans pronounce words such as 'valet', 'fillet' and 'herb' as
if they were modern French -

I'm not sure what you mean. I (and everyone I know) pronounce these
words as if they were American English, which they are, regardless of
their origin.

Nobody who uses valet service, or orders a fillet of fish, is under
the illusion that they're speaking French. In fact, you'd probably
find few US citizens who could tell you anything about "modern French"
pronunciation, and even fewer who could distinguish it from "ancient
French" pronunciation.

*Every time* I (as a Briton living in the US) have asked why herb is
pronounced "erb", or fillet as "fill-eh" out here (California), I've
been told by native Californian-English speakers it's because they're
French words and should be pronounced as such.

This has been happening for 15 years now. It never ceases to amaze me.

Similarly, here in Texas most people will properly pronounce bois d'arc as
"bwah-dark" and know that's because the name is French, but that's just one
of thousands of words that we just memorize and move on without learning
_why_ the French pronounce things strangely, and we still consider the term
(not the individual parts) to be an English word of French origin. Ditto
with Spanish, German, and other words.

There's lots of roads and towns here that have pronunciations which are
neither English nor Spanish, but settled somewhere in between as the
population changed over time. We English speakers are pretty sloppy when we
import words; the more a foreign word is used, the more its pronunciation
alters from the original, until one day it's barely recognizable as a
cognate.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything
CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
K5SSS --Isaac Asimov