Creat an Installation package for client and server

[piggy]

I have developed an application using C# under .NET 2.0 framework. It is
almost done and it is time for me to think about deploymnet to all users. I
don't have any background about this and would like to see if anyone can help
me get started. I have read some about clickonce deployment and not sure
much about this yet. Thanks for your help.

[piggy]

option 1 is what i thought as well. What i am not sure is i only want the
update to happen when the network is high which means that they can only do
when they are in the office. When they are on the roads, this option won't
happen, the update and download have to be ignored. Thanks,

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

My suggestion would be to choose the approach that works best for all
possible situations, which I believe is option 1. In this case, end-users
will have to restart the application for any updates to take affect, but
they'll still be downloading at full-speed when connected to a
high-bandwidth network and when they are mobile it's obviously the best
choice.

--
Dave Sexton

"piggy" <pi***@discussi ons.microsoft.c omwrote in message
news:BF******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...

Dave,

i have another question about choosing a ClickOnce Update strategy. My
app
is used by state troopers. They only have high bandwidth network
connections
when they are in the offices. Low bandwidth is at all time when they are
on
the roads. I know there are three ways that we can do. 1) checking for
updates after application startup 2) checking for updates before
applicaton
startup 3) Making udpates required. The first one is best for low
bandwidth
and the second one is best for high bandwidth. In my case, the network
connection is changing based on where they are. Some times they will have
no
network coverage at all if they are in the far mountains for example.
Thanks,

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

The links I posted in my original response should provide all the
information that you need. There are many possible steps depending upon
your requirements. It just doesn't make sense to go through all of them
here.

Basically, you have to go to the "Publish" tab in your project's
properties
window and configure ClickOnce there. VS 2005 does everything for you so
it's really just a matter of configuration.

--
Dave Sexton

"piggy" <pi***@discussi ons.microsoft.c omwrote in message
news:58******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
Dave,

i have had this information in pieces. If you don't mind, could you
put
together all the steps in order to complete the installation package?
Thanks,

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

I would like all the update will happen automatically. For example,
when
a
user launch an application, it first cheks to see if there is a new
version,
if it is, a user will be asked to run the update, as soon as it is
done,
then
the app will be launched. Is that possible to do? Thanks,

ClickOnce will do that, yes.

You could design that functionality into your own program. I'm not
sure
what problems you'll run into since I've never tried myself, but I
can't
imagine that it would be too difficult:

1. When the application starts check some persisted setting to see
whether
the application should check for newer versions on the web
2. Call into a custom Web Service (on a well-known server) that
informs
your
application whether a new version is available
3. If so, download the new version and start the installer Process.
If
not,
open the application as normal.

You'll have to account for security if clients will not be on a
private
network or VPN by requiring the clients to authenticate with the
server
that
hosts the Web Service and installation package.

Your customers will have to manually obtain the installation package
for
your application from the web, but only the first time it's installed.

The benefit of this approach is that your application can run with the
trust
of the end-user without them having to configure it first, however
you'll
have to develop the feature yourself, including a web service.

--
Dave Sexton

[Dave Sexton]

Hi,

option 1 is what i thought as well. What i am not sure is i only want the
update to happen when the network is high which means that they can only
do
when they are in the office. When they are on the roads, this option
won't
happen, the update and download have to be ignored. Thanks,

That's an interesting point.

The application should work when there is no connectivity at all:

"Applicatio n updates require network connectivity. If a network connection
is not present, the application will run without checking for updates,
regardless of the update strategy that you choose."

"Choosing a ClickOnce Update Strategy"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/s22azw1e.aspx

(All citations in the remainder of this post refer to the document at the
url above)

When there is limited connectivity, ClickOnce will still attempt to download
any updates if you've configured it to do so.

If you will be making a lot of updates or if the speed at which updates are
downloaded and installed when a client has limited connectivity is
unacceptable, then you can do one of three things:

1. Choose the first option in your list (check after startup) and configure
the update interval appropriately:

"For example, you may want to check each time the application runs, or once
a week, or once a month. If a network connection is not present at the
specified time, the update check is performed the next time the application
runs."
§ Specifying Update Intervals

2. Allow the user to choose when it's appropriate to check for updates:

"For example, you might provide a "Check for Updates Now" menu item, or an
"Update Settings" dialog box with choices for different update intervals."
§ Providing a User Interface For Updates

3. Use a standard "Setup and Deployment" project and require users to
periodically check an ftp site or web site for updates.

(You may even have one more option, which is xcopy deployment).

It sounds to me like option 1 is your best choice, but option 2 is
definitely worth consideration.

--
Dave Sexton

[piggy]

I have read "Choose a ClickOnce update strategy" even before i asked you the
question below. It is obvious that if there is no network connection, there
is no update. When network is limited, how can i configure that the
application won't check for the update and download? Because of this
problem, i do think option 2 which is allow user to check for updates maybe a
better choice since from here i can check for current network connectivity
level.

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

option 1 is what i thought as well. What i am not sure is i only want the
update to happen when the network is high which means that they can only
do
when they are in the office. When they are on the roads, this option
won't
happen, the update and download have to be ignored. Thanks,

That's an interesting point.

The application should work when there is no connectivity at all:

"Applicatio n updates require network connectivity. If a network connection
is not present, the application will run without checking for updates,
regardless of the update strategy that you choose."

"Choosing a ClickOnce Update Strategy"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/s22azw1e.aspx

(All citations in the remainder of this post refer to the document at the
url above)

When there is limited connectivity, ClickOnce will still attempt to download
any updates if you've configured it to do so.

If you will be making a lot of updates or if the speed at which updates are
downloaded and installed when a client has limited connectivity is
unacceptable, then you can do one of three things:

1. Choose the first option in your list (check after startup) and configure
the update interval appropriately:

"For example, you may want to check each time the application runs, or once
a week, or once a month. If a network connection is not present at the
specified time, the update check is performed the next time the application
runs."
§ Specifying Update Intervals

2. Allow the user to choose when it's appropriate to check for updates:

"For example, you might provide a "Check for Updates Now" menu item, or an
"Update Settings" dialog box with choices for different update intervals."
§ Providing a User Interface For Updates

3. Use a standard "Setup and Deployment" project and require users to
periodically check an ftp site or web site for updates.

(You may even have one more option, which is xcopy deployment).

It sounds to me like option 1 is your best choice, but option 2 is
definitely worth consideration.

--
Dave Sexton

[Dave Sexton]

Hi,

ClickOnce cannot be configured to pass on updates when network connectivity
is low, AFAIK.

--
Dave Sexton

"piggy" <pi***@discussi ons.microsoft.c omwrote in message
news:75******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...

>I have read "Choose a ClickOnce update strategy" even before i asked you
the
question below. It is obvious that if there is no network connection,
there
is no update. When network is limited, how can i configure that the
application won't check for the update and download? Because of this
problem, i do think option 2 which is allow user to check for updates
maybe a
better choice since from here i can check for current network connectivity
level.

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

>Hi,

option 1 is what i thought as well. What i am not sure is i only want
the
update to happen when the network is high which means that they can
only
do
when they are in the office. When they are on the roads, this option
won't
happen, the update and download have to be ignored. Thanks,

That's an interesting point.

The application should work when there is no connectivity at all:

"Applicatio n updates require network connectivity. If a network
connection
is not present, the application will run without checking for updates,
regardless of the update strategy that you choose."

"Choosing a ClickOnce Update Strategy"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/s22azw1e.aspx

(All citations in the remainder of this post refer to the document at the
url above)

When there is limited connectivity, ClickOnce will still attempt to
download
any updates if you've configured it to do so.

If you will be making a lot of updates or if the speed at which updates
are
downloaded and installed when a client has limited connectivity is
unacceptable , then you can do one of three things:

1. Choose the first option in your list (check after startup) and
configure
the update interval appropriately:

"For example, you may want to check each time the application runs, or
once
a week, or once a month. If a network connection is not present at the
specified time, the update check is performed the next time the
application
runs."
§ Specifying Update Intervals

2. Allow the user to choose when it's appropriate to check for updates:

"For example, you might provide a "Check for Updates Now" menu item, or
an
"Update Settings" dialog box with choices for different update
intervals."
§ Providing a User Interface For Updates

3. Use a standard "Setup and Deployment" project and require users to
periodically check an ftp site or web site for updates.

(You may even have one more option, which is xcopy deployment).

It sounds to me like option 1 is your best choice, but option 2 is
definitely worth consideration.

--
Dave Sexton

[piggy]

Do you have any suggestions of the best way to do solve this? Appreciate
your help.

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

ClickOnce cannot be configured to pass on updates when network connectivity
is low, AFAIK.

--
Dave Sexton

"piggy" <pi***@discussi ons.microsoft.c omwrote in message
news:75******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...

I have read "Choose a ClickOnce update strategy" even before i asked you
the
question below. It is obvious that if there is no network connection,
there
is no update. When network is limited, how can i configure that the
application won't check for the update and download? Because of this
problem, i do think option 2 which is allow user to check for updates
maybe a
better choice since from here i can check for current network connectivity
level.

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

option 1 is what i thought as well. What i am not sure is i only want
the
update to happen when the network is high which means that they can
only
do
when they are in the office. When they are on the roads, this option
won't
happen, the update and download have to be ignored. Thanks,

That's an interesting point.

The application should work when there is no connectivity at all:

"Applicatio n updates require network connectivity. If a network
connection
is not present, the application will run without checking for updates,
regardless of the update strategy that you choose."

"Choosing a ClickOnce Update Strategy"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/s22azw1e.aspx

(All citations in the remainder of this post refer to the document at the
url above)

When there is limited connectivity, ClickOnce will still attempt to
download
any updates if you've configured it to do so.

If you will be making a lot of updates or if the speed at which updates
are
downloaded and installed when a client has limited connectivity is
unacceptable, then you can do one of three things:

1. Choose the first option in your list (check after startup) and
configure
the update interval appropriately:

"For example, you may want to check each time the application runs, or
once
a week, or once a month. If a network connection is not present at the
specified time, the update check is performed the next time the
application
runs."
§ Specifying Update Intervals

2. Allow the user to choose when it's appropriate to check for updates:

"For example, you might provide a "Check for Updates Now" menu item, or
an
"Update Settings" dialog box with choices for different update
intervals."
§ Providing a User Interface For Updates

3. Use a standard "Setup and Deployment" project and require users to
periodically check an ftp site or web site for updates.

(You may even have one more option, which is xcopy deployment).

It sounds to me like option 1 is your best choice, but option 2 is
definitely worth consideration.

--
Dave Sexton

[piggy]

Do you have any suggestions of the best way to solve this? Appreciate your
help.

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

ClickOnce cannot be configured to pass on updates when network connectivity
is low, AFAIK.

--
Dave Sexton

"piggy" <pi***@discussi ons.microsoft.c omwrote in message
news:75******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...

I have read "Choose a ClickOnce update strategy" even before i asked you
the
question below. It is obvious that if there is no network connection,
there
is no update. When network is limited, how can i configure that the
application won't check for the update and download? Because of this
problem, i do think option 2 which is allow user to check for updates
maybe a
better choice since from here i can check for current network connectivity
level.

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

option 1 is what i thought as well. What i am not sure is i only want
the
update to happen when the network is high which means that they can
only
do
when they are in the office. When they are on the roads, this option
won't
happen, the update and download have to be ignored. Thanks,

That's an interesting point.

The application should work when there is no connectivity at all:

"Applicatio n updates require network connectivity. If a network
connection
is not present, the application will run without checking for updates,
regardless of the update strategy that you choose."

"Choosing a ClickOnce Update Strategy"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/s22azw1e.aspx

(All citations in the remainder of this post refer to the document at the
url above)

When there is limited connectivity, ClickOnce will still attempt to
download
any updates if you've configured it to do so.

If you will be making a lot of updates or if the speed at which updates
are
downloaded and installed when a client has limited connectivity is
unacceptable, then you can do one of three things:

1. Choose the first option in your list (check after startup) and
configure
the update interval appropriately:

"For example, you may want to check each time the application runs, or
once
a week, or once a month. If a network connection is not present at the
specified time, the update check is performed the next time the
application
runs."
§ Specifying Update Intervals

2. Allow the user to choose when it's appropriate to check for updates:

"For example, you might provide a "Check for Updates Now" menu item, or
an
"Update Settings" dialog box with choices for different update
intervals."
§ Providing a User Interface For Updates

3. Use a standard "Setup and Deployment" project and require users to
periodically check an ftp site or web site for updates.

(You may even have one more option, which is xcopy deployment).

It sounds to me like option 1 is your best choice, but option 2 is
definitely worth consideration.

--
Dave Sexton

[Dave Sexton]

Hi,

I already stated that, of the three choices I supplied, #1 sounds like the
best choice to me. But if you feel like doing some coding, #2 could work as
well. #3 is a last resort - not using ClickOnce at all.

Have I misunderstood the problem at hand?

--
Dave Sexton

"piggy" <pi***@discussi ons.microsoft.c omwrote in message
news:A5******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...

Do you have any suggestions of the best way to do solve this? Appreciate
your help.

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

>Hi,

ClickOnce cannot be configured to pass on updates when network
connectivity
is low, AFAIK.

--
Dave Sexton

"piggy" <pi***@discussi ons.microsoft.c omwrote in message
news:75******* *************** ************@mi crosoft.com...

>I have read "Choose a ClickOnce update strategy" even before i asked you
the
question below. It is obvious that if there is no network connection,
there
is no update. When network is limited, how can i configure that the
application won't check for the update and download? Because of this
problem, i do think option 2 which is allow user to check for updates
maybe a
better choice since from here i can check for current network
connectivity
level.

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

option 1 is what i thought as well. What i am not sure is i only
want
the
update to happen when the network is high which means that they can
only
do
when they are in the office. When they are on the roads, this
option
won't
happen, the update and download have to be ignored. Thanks,

That's an interesting point.

The application should work when there is no connectivity at all:

"Applicatio n updates require network connectivity. If a network
connection
is not present, the application will run without checking for updates,
regardless of the update strategy that you choose."

"Choosing a ClickOnce Update Strategy"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/s22azw1e.aspx

(All citations in the remainder of this post refer to the document at
the
url above)

When there is limited connectivity, ClickOnce will still attempt to
download
any updates if you've configured it to do so.

If you will be making a lot of updates or if the speed at which
updates
are
downloaded and installed when a client has limited connectivity is
unacceptable , then you can do one of three things:

1. Choose the first option in your list (check after startup) and
configure
the update interval appropriately:

"For example, you may want to check each time the application runs, or
once
a week, or once a month. If a network connection is not present at the
specified time, the update check is performed the next time the
application
runs."
§ Specifying Update Intervals

2. Allow the user to choose when it's appropriate to check for
updates:

"For example, you might provide a "Check for Updates Now" menu item,
or
an
"Update Settings" dialog box with choices for different update
intervals."
§ Providing a User Interface For Updates

3. Use a standard "Setup and Deployment" project and require users to
periodically check an ftp site or web site for updates.

(You may even have one more option, which is xcopy deployment).

It sounds to me like option 1 is your best choice, but option 2 is
definitely worth consideration.

--
Dave Sexton

[Dave Sexton]

Hi,

Because of the special requiremnet that download and update won't happen
when
the network connectivity is low. Only high. That is why i can't use
ClickOnce update automatically. It will have to be programatically . I
think
you may have missed the important part that no download and update when
network connectivity is low.

Actually, that's why I brought up option #2, and this is what I said about
it:

"It sounds to me like option 1 is your best choice, but option 2 is
definitely worth consideration."

It's your choice, since you know whether it's a requirement or something you
can avoid. I don't think that what you want is possible in ClickOnce, as
I've already stated, without programming it. Therefore, #2 might be your
only option. #1, IMO, is preferable if you can avoid this "feature".

I have created a very simple app and public it using ClickOnce technology.
I public it to a file share which is in my C drive
(C:\DeployTest\ ClickOnceTest\) . Run the setup.exe and it is installed in
my
PC (pretent that i am the end user). Then i created another form called
to
do the update but for some reason the
applicationDepl oyment.IsNetwor kDeployed
returns fall all the time. here is the code. Hope you can help me with
this.
I have found the code from the msdn website. Thanks,

It sounds like, from the MSDN documentation, that your app isn't a ClickOnce
application or was installed on the local computer when the
IsNetworkDeploy ed property returns false:

"If you want your application to run both inside and outside of a ClickOnce
deployment (for example, if you need to debug your application on the local
computer before deploying it), test IsNetworkDeploy ed before accessing the
CurrentDeployme nt property.

IsNetworkDeploy ed will return true regardless of whether the application is
installed or hosted online, and regardless of whether it was installed from
a Web site, file share, or CD-ROM."

"ApplicationDep loyment.IsNetwo rkDeployed Property"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...kdeployed.aspx

<snip>

In the future, you may find it easier to load up the MSDN documentation for
classes and APIs that you don't understand. Reading the documentation
should prove to be quicker than waiting for responses in newsgroups, and
you'll acquire a much better understanding about the subject matter. I
recommend asking questions in newsgroups after you do the research or if you
don't quite understand something that you've read. My responses in this
thread were based partially on knowledge that I acquired from the
documentation on MSDN, which is readily available to you as well :)

HTH

--
Dave Sexton

[Dave Sexton]

Hi,

Well, from the docs on MSDN it looks like you might have to use a program
called MageUI.exe. I haven't used this myself, so I'm not sure how it
works, but it seems that you might have to manually configure the
application manifest (AFAICT).

"How to: Check for Application Updates Programmaticall y Using the ClickOnce
Deployment API"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...63(VS.80).aspx

(Check out the table of contents (TOC) to the left and you'll see a whole
bunch of links to information regarding ClickOnce deployments.)

--
Dave Sexton

"piggy" <pi***@discussi ons.microsoft.c omwrote in message
news:AE******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...

>I appreciate your help.

i have a sample app (it just has a simple form) and i pulish it but i
uncheck the "appliation should check for update" since i don't want to the
application to automatically check for the new version. I got that part
done
and working. Then i add a update form in the same solution. The form has
a
"update button" and that is the event handler when the event is raised.
But
it always returns "no new version" and it makes sense because i run the
setup
again so it has the lastest version. Then i create a new application with
an
update in there and it is still the same thing. I am trying to come up
with
the way to test for update programatically . Do you have any ideas how
this
can be done? thanks,

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

>Hi,

Because of the special requiremnet that download and update won't
happen
when
the network connectivity is low. Only high. That is why i can't use
ClickOnce update automatically. It will have to be programatically . I
think
you may have missed the important part that no download and update when
network connectivity is low.

Actually, that's why I brought up option #2, and this is what I said
about
it:

"It sounds to me like option 1 is your best choice, but option 2 is
definitely worth consideration."

It's your choice, since you know whether it's a requirement or something
you
can avoid. I don't think that what you want is possible in ClickOnce, as
I've already stated, without programming it. Therefore, #2 might be your
only option. #1, IMO, is preferable if you can avoid this "feature".

I have created a very simple app and public it using ClickOnce
technology.
I public it to a file share which is in my C drive
(C:\DeployTest\ ClickOnceTest\) . Run the setup.exe and it is installed
in
my
PC (pretent that i am the end user). Then i created another form
called
to
do the update but for some reason the
applicationDepl oyment.IsNetwor kDeployed
returns fall all the time. here is the code. Hope you can help me with
this.
I have found the code from the msdn website. Thanks,

It sounds like, from the MSDN documentation, that your app isn't a
ClickOnce
application or was installed on the local computer when the
IsNetworkDeplo yed property returns false:

"If you want your application to run both inside and outside of a
ClickOnce
deployment (for example, if you need to debug your application on the
local
computer before deploying it), test IsNetworkDeploy ed before accessing
the
CurrentDeploym ent property.

IsNetworkDeplo yed will return true regardless of whether the application
is
installed or hosted online, and regardless of whether it was installed
from
a Web site, file share, or CD-ROM."

"ApplicationDe ployment.IsNetw orkDeployed Property"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...kdeployed.aspx

<snip>

In the future, you may find it easier to load up the MSDN documentation
for
classes and APIs that you don't understand. Reading the documentation
should prove to be quicker than waiting for responses in newsgroups, and
you'll acquire a much better understanding about the subject matter. I
recommend asking questions in newsgroups after you do the research or if
you
don't quite understand something that you've read. My responses in this
thread were based partially on knowledge that I acquired from the
documentatio n on MSDN, which is readily available to you as well :)

HTH

--
Dave Sexton

[piggy]

After doing some research, i don't think ClickOnce works well for us down the
road. We are thinking about ftp file synch. Download the new version if
available to user machine. Is it possible? Thanks.

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

Well, from the docs on MSDN it looks like you might have to use a program
called MageUI.exe. I haven't used this myself, so I'm not sure how it
works, but it seems that you might have to manually configure the
application manifest (AFAICT).

"How to: Check for Application Updates Programmaticall y Using the ClickOnce
Deployment API"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...63(VS.80).aspx

(Check out the table of contents (TOC) to the left and you'll see a whole
bunch of links to information regarding ClickOnce deployments.)

--
Dave Sexton

"piggy" <pi***@discussi ons.microsoft.c omwrote in message
news:AE******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...

I appreciate your help.

i have a sample app (it just has a simple form) and i pulish it but i
uncheck the "appliation should check for update" since i don't want to the
application to automatically check for the new version. I got that part
done
and working. Then i add a update form in the same solution. The form has
a
"update button" and that is the event handler when the event is raised.
But
it always returns "no new version" and it makes sense because i run the
setup
again so it has the lastest version. Then i create a new application with
an
update in there and it is still the same thing. I am trying to come up
with
the way to test for update programatically . Do you have any ideas how
this
can be done? thanks,

"Dave Sexton" wrote:

Hi,

Because of the special requiremnet that download and update won't
happen
when
the network connectivity is low. Only high. That is why i can't use
ClickOnce update automatically. It will have to be programatically . I
think
you may have missed the important part that no download and update when
network connectivity is low.

Actually, that's why I brought up option #2, and this is what I said
about
it:

"It sounds to me like option 1 is your best choice, but option 2 is
definitely worth consideration."

It's your choice, since you know whether it's a requirement or something
you
can avoid. I don't think that what you want is possible in ClickOnce, as
I've already stated, without programming it. Therefore, #2 might be your
only option. #1, IMO, is preferable if you can avoid this "feature".

I have created a very simple app and public it using ClickOnce
technology.
I public it to a file share which is in my C drive
(C:\DeployTest\ ClickOnceTest\) . Run the setup.exe and it is installed
in
my
PC (pretent that i am the end user). Then i created another form
called
to
do the update but for some reason the
applicationDepl oyment.IsNetwor kDeployed
returns fall all the time. here is the code. Hope you can help me with
this.
I have found the code from the msdn website. Thanks,

It sounds like, from the MSDN documentation, that your app isn't a
ClickOnce
application or was installed on the local computer when the
IsNetworkDeploy ed property returns false:

"If you want your application to run both inside and outside of a
ClickOnce
deployment (for example, if you need to debug your application on the
local
computer before deploying it), test IsNetworkDeploy ed before accessing
the
CurrentDeployme nt property.

IsNetworkDeploy ed will return true regardless of whether the application
is
installed or hosted online, and regardless of whether it was installed
from
a Web site, file share, or CD-ROM."

"ApplicationDep loyment.IsNetwo rkDeployed Property"
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...kdeployed.aspx

<snip>

In the future, you may find it easier to load up the MSDN documentation
for
classes and APIs that you don't understand. Reading the documentation
should prove to be quicker than waiting for responses in newsgroups, and
you'll acquire a much better understanding about the subject matter. I
recommend asking questions in newsgroups after you do the research or if
you
don't quite understand something that you've read. My responses in this
thread were based partially on knowledge that I acquired from the
documentation on MSDN, which is readily available to you as well :)

HTH

--
Dave Sexton