Who knows how to prevent submitting a form on the press Enter button before
all fields on the form are filled up.
People just enter the first field hit Enter and it submits the form and
doing validation,
of course flushing with the bunch of messages because rest of the fields are
empty.
I remember I had some pages where wrote the code to go on the next field
when pressed the Enter button (Tab like), because it didn't go anywhere at
all.
Tested it on a few machines, same result.
Thanks,
Michael
Jul 10 '07
24  8444 
Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
microsoft.publi c.inetserver.as p.general:
>Feeling stupid has nothing to do wich whose fault it is, but is a
mighty strong incentive for a steep learning curve.
What does that mean??
Seems I cann't help you there.
>Perhaps the word "stupid" should only appear after the third <enter>?
If the OP follows my suggestion on the code tweaks nothing happens
when enter is hit.
If he also takes the time to explain respectfully how and why the new
interface is different no one ever needs to be called stupid,
especially not by a mere computer.
>My way they would not see those two alerts any more in an hour,
and also target the ones that are on holyday, congress, ill, sick,
buzy elsewhere or just too sleepy during your "conference room with a
projector" happening to notice.
However, in a setting where money is no object, and absolute
politeness is, your idea might eventually work.
Since I have actually managed people and have had to do things similar
to that in the past I can tell you it isn't expensive or pointless and
it does work. People should treat people with respect, computers
should treat people like gods.
Wow, then we should not take the most used OS as an example.
I suppose you also tried to do it the way I suggested,
or else you wouldn't know from experience.
btw, do you expect everyone to be serious? ;-)
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
"Bob Barrows [MVP]" <re******@NOyah oo.SPAMcomwrote in message
news:uZ******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...
Anthony Jones wrote:
"MichaelK" <Ka*******@west .zomax.comwrote in message
news:uL******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP06.phx.gbl. ..
Thanks guys for responds.
I already figured it out.
Just had to change the type from "submit" to "button". Had this
problem long long time ago, just forgot how I solved it that time.
Seems it's what Anthony was metioned.
About standard Tab - I know that, just the forms were written for
our internal data entry people,
and it's a pretty difficult task to make them to don't press Enter
every time and use Tab instead.
So it was easier to capture Enter key and send them to the next
entry field.
Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use
the enter button.
?
Most Windows apps: Excel, Access, etc., use the Enter key for field/cell
navigation. Even Word: you press Enter to get to a new line, not Tab.
None of the above are good analogies of standard computer form based system.
In Word the tab key follows the same function that it does on a typewriter.
It moves to the next tab stop.
Pressing enter or return starts a new line similar to what happens in on a
typewriter. There is no concept here of the next field or control to move
to.
In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right. Again with
its origins on the typewriter this is natural. If you do that a few times
and hit enter see what happens, it goes to the cell under the cell which you
were in when you first started your series of tabs. It is true that enter
can move to the next cell on the right if the that seems to be what you want
currently. But it can also will move you to the row. It just makes enter
key behaviour quirky and less predictable.
However open any dialog on these apps and hit enter what happens? Compare
that with hitting Tab in those dialogs? (In fact you can click in one of
the tool bar embedded controls and try the same tests). The truth is nearly
every windows app that displays an actionable set of controls uses enter to
submit (if it has a default button) and tab to move between controls.
:-) It sounds like you turned on your first computer to a browser and ran
nothing except that for your entire computing life ... ;-)
Actually my first experience of this pre-dates windows. Big-iron IBM
systems for Bill of Materials and stock control. The old 3270 terminals
would again use tab to move between the fields and enter to submit the page.
It is this standard that Windows adopted and MS published in design
guidelines. It has become the industry accepted standard.
I know I am _that_ old. ;)
--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET
"Evertjan." <ex************ **@interxnl.net wrote in message
news:Xn******** ************@19 4.109.133.242.. .
Anthony Jones wrote on 12 jul 2007 in
microsoft.publi c.inetserver.as p.general:
Feeling stupid has nothing to do wich whose fault it is, but is a
mighty strong incentive for a steep learning curve.
What does that mean??
Seems I cann't help you there.
Perhaps the word "stupid" should only appear after the third <enter>?
If the OP follows my suggestion on the code tweaks nothing happens
when enter is hit.
If he also takes the time to explain respectfully how and why the new
interface is different no one ever needs to be called stupid,
especially not by a mere computer.
My way they would not see those two alerts any more in an hour,
and also target the ones that are on holyday, congress, ill, sick,
buzy elsewhere or just too sleepy during your "conference room with a
projector" happening to notice.
However, in a setting where money is no object, and absolute
politeness is, your idea might eventually work.
Since I have actually managed people and have had to do things similar
to that in the past I can tell you it isn't expensive or pointless and
it does work. People should treat people with respect, computers
should treat people like gods.
Wow, then we should not take the most used OS as an example.
I suppose you also tried to do it the way I suggested,
or else you wouldn't know from experience.
btw, do you expect everyone to be serious? ;-)
I can't tell when you're being serious or not. Partly because the text
medium removes much from communication and partly because I do tend to be a
literal thinker.
--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET
Anthony Jones wrote:
"Bob Barrows [MVP]" <re******@NOyah oo.SPAMcomwrote in message
news:uZ******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...
>Anthony Jones wrote:
>>"MichaelK" <Ka*******@west .zomax.comwrote in message
news:uL****** **********@TK2M SFTNGP06.phx.gb l...
Thanks guys for responds.
I already figured it out.
Just had to change the type from "submit" to "button". Had this
problem long long time ago, just forgot how I solved it that time.
Seems it's what Anthony was metioned.
About standard Tab - I know that, just the forms were written for
our internal data entry people,
and it's a pretty difficult task to make them to don't press Enter
every time and use Tab instead.
So it was easier to capture Enter key and send them to the next
entry field.
Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use
the enter button.
?
Most Windows apps: Excel, Access, etc., use the Enter key for
field/cell navigation. Even Word: you press Enter to get to a new
line, not Tab.
None of the above are good analogies of standard computer form based
system.
In Word the tab key follows the same function that it does on a
typewriter. It moves to the next tab stop.
Pressing enter or return starts a new line similar to what happens in
on a typewriter. There is no concept here of the next field or
control to move to.
In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right.
So does Enter, which is a boon for people entering a lot of numeric
data.
Open Calculater and perform this calculation without using the mouse:
4+5*9=
What key did you press instead of clicking the "=" button? I doubt it
was tab ;-)
Think of an accountant entering a list of numbers from a printout or a
bunch of receipts or invoices: she will use her left hand to keep track
of where she is, and her right hand to enter the values using the number
pad. Think of the loss of productivity if she had to use the Tab key
instead of the Enter key on the number pad.
--
Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. The email account listed in my From
header is my spam trap, so I don't check it very often. You will get a
quicker response by posting to the newsgroup.
Anthony Jones wrote:
...Apologise prefusely to them for having them use an
application in the past that did not conform to this
standard and could they please use the tab button from
now on.
Yeah - just because their telnet/3270 applications were designed and written
before the web browser even existed, those old programs should have gotten
with the eventually-to-become-standard program.
--
Dave Anderson
Unsolicited commercial email will be read at a cost of $500 per message. Use
of this email address implies consent to these terms.
--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET
"Bob Barrows [MVP]" <re******@NOyah oo.SPAMcomwrote in message
news:OH******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...
Anthony Jones wrote:
"Bob Barrows [MVP]" <re******@NOyah oo.SPAMcomwrote in message
news:uZ******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...
Anthony Jones wrote:
"MichaelK" <Ka*******@west .zomax.comwrote in message
news:uL******* *********@TK2MS FTNGP06.phx.gbl ...
Thanks guys for responds.
I already figured it out.
Just had to change the type from "submit" to "button". Had this
problem long long time ago, just forgot how I solved it that time.
Seems it's what Anthony was metioned.
About standard Tab - I know that, just the forms were written for
our internal data entry people,
and it's a pretty difficult task to make them to don't press Enter
every time and use Tab instead.
So it was easier to capture Enter key and send them to the next
entry field.
Makes you wonder what they were using before that taught them to use
the enter button.
?
Most Windows apps: Excel, Access, etc., use the Enter key for
field/cell navigation. Even Word: you press Enter to get to a new
line, not Tab.
None of the above are good analogies of standard computer form based
system.
In Word the tab key follows the same function that it does on a
typewriter. It moves to the next tab stop.
Pressing enter or return starts a new line similar to what happens in
on a typewriter. There is no concept here of the next field or
control to move to.
In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right.
So does Enter, which is a boon for people entering a lot of numeric
data.
Like I said what the Enter key does varies depending on what Excel
intelligently interprets what you want it to do.
>
Open Calculater and perform this calculation without using the mouse:
4+5*9=
What key did you press instead of clicking the "=" button? I doubt it
was tab ;-)
No, why would I press the tab, there are no other fields to navigate to :P
Think of an accountant entering a list of numbers from a printout or a
bunch of receipts or invoices: she will use her left hand to keep track
of where she is, and her right hand to enter the values using the number
pad. Think of the loss of productivity if she had to use the Tab key
instead of the Enter key on the number pad.
Again the cacluator is not representive of the species. It doesn't even
give the one input control it has the focus.
Enter does what you would expect it to in a standard UI, completes the
operation, (even though the calc doesn't really conform otherwise) it isn't
being used for field navigation.
--
Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. The email account listed in my From
header is my spam trap, so I don't check it very often. You will get a
quicker response by posting to the newsgroup.
Anthony Jones wrote:
>>In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right.
So does Enter, which is a boon for people entering a lot of numeric
data.
Like I said what the Enter key does varies depending on what Excel
intelligently interprets what you want it to do.
So? How does that invalidate my assertion? The fact remains that I can
perform cell navigation in Excel using the Enter key.
>Open Calculater and perform this calculation without using the mouse:
4+5*9=
What key did you press instead of clicking the "=" button? I doubt it
was tab ;-)
No, why would I press the tab, there are no other fields to navigate
to :P
No, but most business application users are used to this model: type in the
data and press Enter to signal that the current piece of data is finished
and move to the next field. In fact, they are so used to this that they take
it on faith that this will happen, continuing to type in data without even
looking at the screen to confirm that the expected navigation has taken
place.
>
>Think of an accountant entering a list of numbers from a printout or
a bunch of receipts or invoices: she will use her left hand to keep
track of where she is, and her right hand to enter the values using
the number pad. Think of the loss of productivity if she had to use
the Tab key instead of the Enter key on the number pad.
Again the cacluator is not representive of the species. It doesn't
even give the one input control it has the focus.
And I seem to have failed to clarify my shift from the Calculater example
back to an application UI presenting a series of fields or cells in which
data is to be entered, such as Excel.
Enter does what you would expect it to in a standard UI, completes the
operation, (even though the calc doesn't really conform otherwise) it
isn't being used for field navigation.
Again, in Excel, Enter can, and is, used for cell navigation (I really do
not understand your denial of this fact.). And again, most users of business
applications that I have encountered balk at losing the ability to perform
single-handed data entry using the Enter key to navigate from
field-to-field. They are not interested in conforming to design
"standards" ', they are interested in performing their job in the most
efficient manner possible, and refuse to use applications that slow them
down.
--
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
"NO SPAM"
"Bob Barrows [MVP]" <re******@NOyah oo.SPAMcomwrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP03.phx.gbl. ..
Anthony Jones wrote:
>In Excel the tab key always moves to the next cell to the right.
So does Enter, which is a boon for people entering a lot of numeric
data.
Like I said what the Enter key does varies depending on what Excel
intelligently interprets what you want it to do.
So? How does that invalidate my assertion? The fact remains that I can
perform cell navigation in Excel using the Enter key.
It doesn't
>
Open Calculater and perform this calculation without using the mouse:
4+5*9=
What key did you press instead of clicking the "=" button? I doubt it
was tab ;-)
No, why would I press the tab, there are no other fields to navigate
to :P
No, but most business application users are used to this model: type in
the
data and press Enter to signal that the current piece of data is finished
and move to the next field. In fact, they are so used to this that they
take
it on faith that this will happen, continuing to type in data without even
looking at the screen to confirm that the expected navigation has taken
place.
I'm sorry but my exprience is different.
>
Think of an accountant entering a list of numbers from a printout or
a bunch of receipts or invoices: she will use her left hand to keep
track of where she is, and her right hand to enter the values using
the number pad. Think of the loss of productivity if she had to use
the Tab key instead of the Enter key on the number pad.
Again the cacluator is not representive of the species. It doesn't
even give the one input control it has the focus.
And I seem to have failed to clarify my shift from the Calculater example
back to an application UI presenting a series of fields or cells in which
data is to be entered, such as Excel.
Hold on you equate cells with fields. I don't accept that you can equate
the contigeous set of cells in a spreadsheet with a set of data entry fields
in a form.
>
Enter does what you would expect it to in a standard UI, completes the
operation, (even though the calc doesn't really conform otherwise) it
isn't being used for field navigation.
Again, in Excel, Enter can, and is, used for cell navigation (I really do
not understand your denial of this fact.).
I didn't, in fact I've given you quite an explicit description of how the
enter key does actually work in Excel.
And again, most users of business
applications that I have encountered balk at losing the ability to perform
single-handed data entry using the Enter key to navigate from
field-to-field.
Ok I accept where single handed data entry is required (we're talking pure
numerical info here) then the abiility to use the numeric pads enter key to
move to the next field is sensible. Is that a general or a specific case?
They are not interested in conforming to design
"standards" ', they are interested in performing their job in the most
efficient manner possible, and refuse to use applications that slow them
down.
I completely agree that we should give the users whatever is the most
sensible and natural UI we can.
--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET
Anthony Jones wrote:
>
Hold on you equate cells with fields. I don't accept that you can
equate the contigeous set of cells in a spreadsheet with a set of
data entry fields in a form.
From a computer science pov, you are certainly correct. Users will usually
fail to appreciate the distinction. I made a brief attempt several years ago
but had to admit defeat.
>And again, most users of business
applications that I have encountered balk at losing the ability to
perform single-handed data entry using the Enter key to navigate from
field-to-field.
Ok I accept where single handed data entry is required (we're talking
pure numerical info here) then the abiility to use the numeric pads
enter key to move to the next field is sensible. Is that a general
or a specific case?
In my experience, it's been the general case. Most of my applications
involve numeric entry and, if I forget to capture and redefine the Enter
keystroke, I hear about it. Of course, I don't forget anymore, because I've
got a js library file that I include in every form I create.
--
Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
"NO SPAM"
"Bob Barrows [MVP]" <re******@NOyah oo.SPAMcomwrote in message
news:ey******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP06.phx.gbl...
Anthony Jones wrote:
Ok I accept where single handed data entry is required (we're talking
pure numerical info here) then the abiility to use the numeric pads
enter key to move to the next field is sensible. Is that a general
or a specific case?
In my experience, it's been the general case. Most of my applications
involve numeric entry and, if I forget to capture and redefine the Enter
keystroke, I hear about it. Of course, I don't forget anymore, because
I've
got a js library file that I include in every form I create.
Interesting. OTH I have had users go on at me because I failed to supply a
default action which is initiated by the enter button and that's not just in
Web apps. I guess it just goes to show that even with a long career you
can't generalise on your own experience. I'll try to remember that in
future.
--
Anthony Jones - MVP ASP/ASP.NET This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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