employment as access developer

[Sirocco]

I have 10 years of experience as an access developer, but can't find work -
I was laid off several months ago, and live in the Washington, DC area. Is
it possible to have too much experience? I'm thinking of returning to
college to study systems engineering, is this a good idea?

[Larry Linson]

The demand for Access work, in most locales, is not as strong as it was back
in the late 1990s. But there's enough that some people in every city of any
size work full time or on contract on jobs in which Access is a significant
part. You'll be better off with a combination of Access and other skills.
Demand for qualified "Database Administrators" seems to still be strong --
for that, certification might be better than academic credentials.

This probably isn't the best place to get information on "Systems
Engineering" (in fact, there are so many definitions of that term that you'd
probably have to define in detail exactly what the course of study includes
when you do find a good place to discuss it. For example, I was a "Systems
Engineer" for a major computer manufacturer back in the 1970s and 1980s...
in an organization which performed consulting, design, and implementation of
software for mainframes and minicomputers on contract to the corporation's
customers -- and I am strongly suspect that is not what is covered in the
course you are considering.)

Yes, you can be considered "overqualified" for particular jobs. Often,
however, that just translates to "we are looking for someone who we wouldn't
have to pay as much as you would want".

Larry Linson
Microsoft Office Access MVP
"Sirocco" <Sp********@verizon.netwrote in message
news:5z*****************@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

>I have 10 years of experience as an access developer, but can't find work -
I was laid off several months ago, and live in the Washington, DC area. Is
it possible to have too much experience? I'm thinking of returning to
college to study systems engineering, is this a good idea?

[CDMAPoster]

On Oct 31, 12:04 am, "Sirocco" <[e-mail]:

Do systems engineers only work with math models?

This is getting off topic, but I'll respond to your questions.

One of the reasons for the development of Systems Engineering as a
separate speciality was that the solutions to many problems in, say,
Mechanical and Electrical engineering solve essentially the same kinds
of differential equations. By comparing the solutions to many kinds
of problems in several branches of engineering, particularly the
differential equations, it turns out that electrical and mechanical
components have counterparts in the other discipline. For example,
the mass in a mechanical system or component corresponds to the
capacitance of an electrical system or component. A mechanical spring
corresponds to electrical inductance, etc. This allows experience in
one area to augment expertise or intuition in another. Thus powerful
general techniques can be used to solve a wide range of problems
originally thought to be very different in nature. Math models may be
used to analyze an existing system or, more generally, to aid an
engineer in designing or optimizing a system. The math models are a
huge part of the art and science of engineering.

I wouldn't have expected systems engineers to design vehicles,
at least not from the ground up. Isn't that more mechanical engineering?

It's no mistake that Oakland University emphasizes Systems
Engineering. Most of the money donated to establish Oakland U. as an
honors college for Michigan State University (originally) was from the
Dodge estate. Automotive suspensions, involving springs, shocks and
vehicle mass, along with electrical controls, made it essential to
have engineering models that predict the vibration/frequency behavior
of those systems. Vehicle designers have been increasingly in need of
both electrical and mechanical skills. Oakland U. has even designed
new classes in what is now called Mechatronics. It is interesting
that many of the original honors college professors have only retired
within the last decade. Oakland U. is accredited by the Accreditation
Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET), one of the most highly
regarded and sought after accreditations possible. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABET

The motivation for Oakland U. to cosponsor the annual ground robotics
competition was that as part of the accreditation process, ABET
encouraged Oakland U. to provide more opportunities for hands-on
engineering projects. They also created opportunities for engineering
students to compete in the SAE formula one competition and in the
supermileage competition. The bullet shaped supermileage vehicle,
resembling something out of Demolition Man, got over 1000 MPG.
Needless to say, Oakland U. takes ABET recommendations quite
seriously. I hope I've answered your questions.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

U.S. financial bailout -- the greatest heist in the history of
mankind, requiring a sudden emergency that took years of planning.

[Bob Alston]

CD********@fortunejames.com wrote:

On Oct 31, 12:04 am, "Sirocco" <[e-mail]:

>Do systems engineers only work with math models?

And of course some people use the term systems engineering to mean
designing computer systems using software and hardware.

[Sirocco]

I wouldn't have known that differential equations were such an "integral"
part of systems engineering, at least not in industry. My brother has a BS
in elec engineering and is an "elec engineer", but he doesn't know from
differential equations. I would have expected systems engineers to simply
plug numbers into math models (to the extent that they rely on math models)
but not to actually design the math models.

I wouldn't have expected that "systems engineering" is synonomous with
"mathematician". Likewise I have a BS in Comp Sci (and a BS in
Biochemistry), but, since college, have never been exposed to any "higher
math" whatsoever, and I don't think it's because I'm avoiding it - I've
worked mainly with databases and computer graphics. My impression is that
"higher math", as it pertains to engineering, of any flavor, is confined to
pure research. After all, isn't the whole point of a "math model" to remove
as much "math" as possible from the "field engineer's" daily routine?

By the way, this is my thread, and everything you've said so far is right
"on topic". I appreciate your comments. I've applied to several Systems
Engineering programs in Virginia, and hope this is the right career path for
me - I'm looking to veer away from database work- I seem to have peaked out
with that. I'm sold on the value of an engineering degree. I"m not a math
whiz, but I'm not afraid of it either. I've already taken about 3 calculus
courses, and tend to do OK, got an A in "tech calculus". But I'd like to
avoid a math intensive engineering career, maybe veering towards the
"support" or "administrative" end.
<CD********@fortunejames.comwrote in message
news:b8**********************************@q30g2000 prq.googlegroups.com...

On Oct 31, 12:04 am, "Sirocco" <[e-mail]:

>Do systems engineers only work with math models?

This is getting off topic, but I'll respond to your questions.

One of the reasons for the development of Systems Engineering as a
separate speciality was that the solutions to many problems in, say,
Mechanical and Electrical engineering solve essentially the same kinds
of differential equations. By comparing the solutions to many kinds
of problems in several branches of engineering, particularly the
differential equations, it turns out that electrical and mechanical
components have counterparts in the other discipline. For example,
the mass in a mechanical system or component corresponds to the
capacitance of an electrical system or component. A mechanical spring
corresponds to electrical inductance, etc. This allows experience in
one area to augment expertise or intuition in another. Thus powerful
general techniques can be used to solve a wide range of problems
originally thought to be very different in nature. Math models may be
used to analyze an existing system or, more generally, to aid an
engineer in designing or optimizing a system. The math models are a
huge part of the art and science of engineering.

> I wouldn't have expected systems engineers to design vehicles,
at least not from the ground up. Isn't that more mechanical engineering?

It's no mistake that Oakland University emphasizes Systems
Engineering. Most of the money donated to establish Oakland U. as an
honors college for Michigan State University (originally) was from the
Dodge estate. Automotive suspensions, involving springs, shocks and
vehicle mass, along with electrical controls, made it essential to
have engineering models that predict the vibration/frequency behavior
of those systems. Vehicle designers have been increasingly in need of
both electrical and mechanical skills. Oakland U. has even designed
new classes in what is now called Mechatronics. It is interesting
that many of the original honors college professors have only retired
within the last decade. Oakland U. is accredited by the Accreditation
Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET), one of the most highly
regarded and sought after accreditations possible. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABET

The motivation for Oakland U. to cosponsor the annual ground robotics
competition was that as part of the accreditation process, ABET
encouraged Oakland U. to provide more opportunities for hands-on
engineering projects. They also created opportunities for engineering
students to compete in the SAE formula one competition and in the
supermileage competition. The bullet shaped supermileage vehicle,
resembling something out of Demolition Man, got over 1000 MPG.
Needless to say, Oakland U. takes ABET recommendations quite
seriously. I hope I've answered your questions.

James A. Fortune
CD********@FortuneJames.com

U.S. financial bailout -- the greatest heist in the history of
mankind, requiring a sudden emergency that took years of planning.