OT How much knowledge is enough?

[salad]

If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
..Net, SQL, C#, etc.

How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for
the job?

How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?

[Nick 'The Database Guy']

Salad,

Even if you feel comfortable getting a job as a C# programmer after
writing a "Hello World" program, I doubt that you could fulfill the
employers expectations. Furthermore I would not waste either yours or
the prospective employers time by forwarding your CV/resume.

Good luck

Nick
salad wrote:

If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
.Net, SQL, C#, etc.

How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for
the job?

How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?

[ManningFan]

I wouldn't dare apply for a job unless I had 2 years under my belt.
Some people are so desperate they'll lie more on their resume than on
an online dating site. Me, I have too much pride. I have NEVER lied
on a resume, and never applied for a job that I didn't feel I could
"hit the ground running" on.

But you wouldn't be alone of you wrote that "Hello World" program and
then touted yourself as a "C# Expert". All I can tell you is that when
you're discovered (which you ALWAYS are), your employer is going to be
so pissed that if you used them on your next resume it'd be a complete
and total kiss of death.

salad wrote:

If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
.Net, SQL, C#, etc.

How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for
the job?

How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?

[Nick 'The Database Guy']

My sentiments exactly manning.

ManningFan wrote:

I wouldn't dare apply for a job unless I had 2 years under my belt.
Some people are so desperate they'll lie more on their resume than on
an online dating site. Me, I have too much pride. I have NEVER lied
on a resume, and never applied for a job that I didn't feel I could
"hit the ground running" on.

But you wouldn't be alone of you wrote that "Hello World" program and
then touted yourself as a "C# Expert". All I can tell you is that when
you're discovered (which you ALWAYS are), your employer is going to be
so pissed that if you used them on your next resume it'd be a complete
and total kiss of death.

salad wrote:

If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
.Net, SQL, C#, etc.

How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for
the job?

How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?

[chris.nebinger]

I also think that employers put down the specifications of the absolute
ideal employee, knowing full well it's a give and take. If they found
that employee, they probably wouldn't want to pay what his experience
dictated.

Now, I have, and will continue to apply, for positions if I am close to
the listed specs. I will put in either my cover letter or my resume
where I come up short, but how I have learned new technologies on the
way. I am a quick learner, and while I do not lie, I do stress how I
can increase my knowledge through books and on-the-job training.

If I was like ManningFan, I would not have exposed myself to new
technologies that I wasn't exposed to in my current position. I think
that is selling yourself short.

I have a bunch of VB.NET experience, and I have no problem submitting
my resume for a C# position, and then explaining how I feel I could
pick up the syntax already knowing the framework. I would not,
however, apply for a Java/J2EE position.
Chris

Nick 'The Database Guy' wrote:

My sentiments exactly manning.

ManningFan wrote:

I wouldn't dare apply for a job unless I had 2 years under my belt.
Some people are so desperate they'll lie more on their resume than on
an online dating site. Me, I have too much pride. I have NEVER lied
on a resume, and never applied for a job that I didn't feel I could
"hit the ground running" on.

But you wouldn't be alone of you wrote that "Hello World" program and
then touted yourself as a "C# Expert". All I can tell you is that when
you're discovered (which you ALWAYS are), your employer is going to be
so pissed that if you used them on your next resume it'd be a complete
and total kiss of death.

salad wrote:

If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
.Net, SQL, C#, etc.
>
How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for
the job?
>
How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?

[Lyle Fairfield]

"ManningFan " <ma********@gma il.comwrote in news:1154966497 .583981.237870
@p79g2000cwp.go oglegroups.com:

I wouldn't dare apply for a job unless I had 2 years under my belt.

Does experience matter? We have regular posters here who have been
"developing " for ten years whose work comprises solely of Googling, copying
and, oh yeah, protecting THEIR intellectual property. I shudder when they
speak of "my clients" and "my applications" and trumpet their grandiose
nicknames like Supreme Solutions, Dream Databases and Amazing Applications.
Basically they know zip about databases, zip about coding, zip about logic
and zip about language, but they are pretty good a whining and sycophancy.
The characteristic of hard work, the drive to be excellent, these are
foreign notions to them.

Give me a choice between one of these experienced charlatans and the
intelligent, hard working "Hello World" expert and I will take the latter,
every time. Potential is everything.

--
Lyle Fairfield

[ManningFan]

Actually, Chris, I was hired by a company recently who liked my Access
experience and was willing to teach me SQL Server along the way. Prior
to that I was hired as a VB programmer and shortly thereafter was asked
to also become the "CIO" (if you will) of a small company with 2 sister
offices, whereby I was responsible for running a LAN/WAN, server
maintenance, hardware/software issues and everything else, essentially
becoming a "one-man shop". So, sometimes you ARE allowed to be exposed
to new technologies. However, if you tell an employer you already know
them and you don't, they're not going to just laugh it off when they
discover the truth.

ch************@ gmail.com wrote:

If I was like ManningFan, I would not have exposed myself to new
technologies that I wasn't exposed to in my current position. I think
that is selling yourself short.

[CDMAPoster]

salad wrote:

If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
.Net, SQL, C#, etc.

How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for
the job?

How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?

I'll be doing a part-time contract C# job soon.

I didn't lie to the employer about qualifications. I didn't even tell
the employer I knew any C# at all.

I have done paid programming in Microsoft Visual C++ 1.0 before. I'll
read several books about C# first. I'll do a bunch of tutorials. I'll
write some practice programs. I'll download and study the code from
other people's programs. I'll read thousands of posts to C#
newsgroups. All that's before I begin. Plus, I'll be doing the work
at less than half of my standard rate in recognition of the fact that
I'll be doing some on-the-job learning.

That's enough knowledge for me to jump in, but I like being a bit
over-prepared. I expect that the employer, a large software house with
a number of large contracts, will be completely satisfied with my work.
Programming success is more often about the process than about the
language. Of course, it's bad form to start a project then have to go
to the help file much. They wanted me to start three months ago if I
could. I told them I couldn't back out of my current commitments. If
their needs change I will still have several possibilities for learning
C# on-the-job.

How did I find them? It turns out that a couple of large software
houses, each about ten miles from where I live, advertise in Google
Sponsored Links. I called the president, set up an appointment, and
explained the situation. There was no résumé, no interview, just
talk about a win-win possibility.

James A. Fortune
CD********@Fort uneJames.com

[Steve]

My first hire was a Chinese lady, only in this country for one year, who was
taught C programming in China. After reviewing her resume, asking some
questions, I hired her on the spot for Access development work (back in the
days of Access 2.0). I gave her my Access development books, and she read
them over the weekends and at nights, and started programming in two weeks.
Best hire ever .... and no direct experience.

What impressed me was her native intelligence, general developer background,
and extreme drive and determination. As an aside, she was a top ranked
table- tennis player on one of the major national teams, which required
extensive conditioning (6 mile runs per day) and discipline.

After three years with us, she left since her husband was relocating to
Chicago. She was hired but another (larger) company.

Direct experience with the language is important, but not as important as
many other factors.

Steven
"salad" <oi*@vinegar.co mwrote in message
news:NF******** *******@newsrea d2.news.pas.ear thlink.net...

If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
.Net, SQL, C#, etc.

How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for the
job?

How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?

[Tom van Stiphout]

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 15:06:21 GMT, salad <oi*@vinegar.co mwrote:

..Net is a BIG topic. If you've only written a Hello Windows app so
far, you have A LOT of work ahead of you.
I recognize Steve's situation and I have done the same. However Access
programming is quite a limited subject compared to .Net programming. I
see this in our company where seasoned .Net programmers get stumped on
a fairly regular basis.
If I had to hire you for this job, you would have to have at least a
basic business-productivity app under your belt, and an enormous
demonstrated eagerness to become a great .Net programmer.

-Tom.

>If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
.Net, SQL, C#, etc.

How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for
the job?

How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?