OT How much knowledge is enough?

[salad]

If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
..Net, SQL, C#, etc.

How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for
the job?

How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?

[chris.nebinger]

I'm not disagreeing with you, as I would not lie on a resume. But, I
would apply to positions where I did not meet all of the stated
qualifications. I would not skip over it just because I have never
written in ADA. I would then tell the interviewer how, although I have
no professional experience, I would be confident in learning it.
Chris
ManningFan wrote:

Actually, Chris, I was hired by a company recently who liked my Access
experience and was willing to teach me SQL Server along the way. Prior
to that I was hired as a VB programmer and shortly thereafter was asked
to also become the "CIO" (if you will) of a small company with 2 sister
offices, whereby I was responsible for running a LAN/WAN, server
maintenance, hardware/software issues and everything else, essentially
becoming a "one-man shop". So, sometimes you ARE allowed to be exposed
to new technologies. However, if you tell an employer you already know
them and you don't, they're not going to just laugh it off when they
discover the truth.

ch************@ gmail.com wrote:

If I was like ManningFan, I would not have exposed myself to new
technologies that I wasn't exposed to in my current position. I think
that is selling yourself short.

[salad]

ch************@ gmail.com wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with you, as I would not lie on a resume. But, I
would apply to positions where I did not meet all of the stated
qualifications. I would not skip over it just because I have never
written in ADA. I would then tell the interviewer how, although I have
no professional experience, I would be confident in learning it.

Chris

Have you done so in the past and if so, did you get the job?

>

ManningFan wrote:

>>Actually, Chris, I was hired by a company recently who liked my Access
experience and was willing to teach me SQL Server along the way. Prior
to that I was hired as a VB programmer and shortly thereafter was asked
to also become the "CIO" (if you will) of a small company with 2 sister
offices, whereby I was responsible for running a LAN/WAN, server
maintenance , hardware/software issues and everything else, essentially
becoming a "one-man shop". So, sometimes you ARE allowed to be exposed
to new technologies. However, if you tell an employer you already know
them and you don't, they're not going to just laugh it off when they
discover the truth.

ch*********** *@gmail.com wrote:

>>>If I was like ManningFan, I would not have exposed myself to new
technologi es that I wasn't exposed to in my current position. I think
that is selling yourself short.

[salad]

salad wrote:

If one looks at job listings one will read the requirements of for it;
.Net, SQL, C#, etc.

How much skill, if years experience in the discipline isn't listed, is
needed. Could one simply get the C# program, read a book on it, do a
"Hello World" program, and feel comfortable on the topic and apply for
the job?

How much knowlecge is enough, if you've got a developer background, on a
new language or subject to go for it?

Interesting stuff from all that replied. Thanks.

I've read posts in the past like...upgrade you skills, get C#, and read
some books, and get the job, etc.

I was just wondering what you guys thought of it.

[chris.nebinger]

I did. My current position requisition stated 2 years ASP.NET. I have
not done much at all with ASP.NET, but I have with ASP & VB.NET. I was
upfront with them, and gave 3 examples of other technologies that I
learned (ColdFusion, Flash, ArcObjects) in a short time to meet a
project requirement.

>From putting together job reqs, it's apparent that it would be rare to

find the person who meets all requirements, especially after that req
has gone through HR. The hiring manager usually knows jack about
technology.

But, I've also sat in a interview for a GIS candidate. Why they had me
there, I have no idea, but the topic of Access not being a real
database came up. I inquired deeper, thinking that the interviewee
would respond with file based, single threaded, poor security model,
stripped down version of SQL (no triggers, weak stored procs, etc.), no
transaction logging, or poor scalability. You know, what we know to be
the limitations of Access that make us migrate to SQL Server. Instead,
he tried to blow smoke and say that he and a coworker friend tried to
do something and could not. I can't remember what that task was, but
Access could certainly do it. It was his lack of understanding and
attempt to mask that which led to my recommendation not to hire. I
don't think my opinion counted for much, but I gave it.

Also, keep in mind, most companies will have a candidate interview with
peers to ensure knowledge. The kind of questions that come up will not
be how to make a "Hello World" type application, but more in depth than
that. I usually present an actual problem that I'm having to see how
the candidate responds.
Chris

salad wrote:

ch************@ gmail.com wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with you, as I would not lie on a resume. But, I
would apply to positions where I did not meet all of the stated
qualifications. I would not skip over it just because I have never
written in ADA. I would then tell the interviewer how, although I have
no professional experience, I would be confident in learning it.

Chris

Have you done so in the past and if so, did you get the job?

ManningFan wrote:

>Actually, Chris, I was hired by a company recently who liked my Access
experience and was willing to teach me SQL Server along the way. Prior
to that I was hired as a VB programmer and shortly thereafter was asked
to also become the "CIO" (if you will) of a small company with 2 sister
offices, whereby I was responsible for running a LAN/WAN, server
maintenance, hardware/software issues and everything else, essentially
becoming a "one-man shop". So, sometimes you ARE allowed to be exposed
to new technologies. However, if you tell an employer you already know
them and you don't, they're not going to just laugh it off when they
discover the truth.

ch************ @gmail.com wrote:

If I was like ManningFan, I would not have exposed myself to new
technologie s that I wasn't exposed to in my current position. I think
that is selling yourself short.

[salad]

ch************@ gmail.com wrote:

I did. My current position requisition stated 2 years ASP.NET. I have
not done much at all with ASP.NET, but I have with ASP & VB.NET. I was
upfront with them, and gave 3 examples of other technologies that I
learned (ColdFusion, Flash, ArcObjects) in a short time to meet a
project requirement.

>>From putting together job reqs, it's apparent that it would be rare to

find the person who meets all requirements, especially after that req
has gone through HR. The hiring manager usually knows jack about
technology.

But, I've also sat in a interview for a GIS candidate. Why they had me
there, I have no idea, but the topic of Access not being a real
database came up. I inquired deeper, thinking that the interviewee
would respond with file based, single threaded, poor security model,
stripped down version of SQL (no triggers, weak stored procs, etc.), no
transaction logging, or poor scalability. You know, what we know to be
the limitations of Access that make us migrate to SQL Server. Instead,
he tried to blow smoke and say that he and a coworker friend tried to
do something and could not. I can't remember what that task was, but
Access could certainly do it. It was his lack of understanding and
attempt to mask that which led to my recommendation not to hire. I
don't think my opinion counted for much, but I gave it.

Also, keep in mind, most companies will have a candidate interview with
peers to ensure knowledge. The kind of questions that come up will not
be how to make a "Hello World" type application, but more in depth than
that. I usually present an actual problem that I'm having to see how
the candidate responds.
Chris

I was talking to my friend about some of this stuff you just covered.
I'm forwarding your response on to him. Good stuff.

[Phil Latio]

Gizza job !!

:)
Lyle Fairfield wrote:

"ManningFan " <ma********@gma il.comwrote in news:1154966497 .583981.237870
@p79g2000cwp.go oglegroups.com:

I wouldn't dare apply for a job unless I had 2 years under my belt.

Does experience matter? We have regular posters here who have been
"developing " for ten years whose work comprises solely of Googling, copying
and, oh yeah, protecting THEIR intellectual property. I shudder when they
speak of "my clients" and "my applications" and trumpet their grandiose
nicknames like Supreme Solutions, Dream Databases and Amazing Applications.
Basically they know zip about databases, zip about coding, zip about logic
and zip about language, but they are pretty good a whining and sycophancy.
The characteristic of hard work, the drive to be excellent, these are
foreign notions to them.

Give me a choice between one of these experienced charlatans and the
intelligent, hard working "Hello World" expert and I will take the latter,
every time. Potential is everything.

--
Lyle Fairfield

[Larry Linson]

<ch************ @gmail.comwrote

Also, keep in mind, most companies
will have a candidate interview with
peers to ensure knowledge. The kind
of questions that come up will not
be how to make a "Hello World" type
application, but more in depth than
that. I usually present an actual problem
that I'm having to see how the candidate
responds.

I have a colleague who occasionally hires subcontractors to do Access work.
He invariably includes as one of his "do-or-die" questions: "How do you
pass information to a Form that you open with DoCmd.OpenForm? " or "What is
OpenArgs?"

I don't know his "percentage score" today, but he used to eliminate well
over half the applicants on that question alone -- figured if they didn't
know that, they weren't "Access developers."

Larry

[Larry Linson]

"Phil Latio" <ph********@lyc os.co.ukwrote

Gizza job !!

I'm reasonably sure Lyle "gozza" plenty of work to keep him "bizzy" (and at
far greater reward) than if he "gozza job" for "sumbuddy elz."

Larry

[Lyle Fairfield]

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localh ost.notwrote in
news:3GtCg.4236 4$gU4.39878@trn ddc07:

I have a colleague who occasionally hires subcontractors to do Access
work. He invariably includes as one of his "do-or-die" questions:
"How do you pass information to a Form that you open with
DoCmd.OpenForm? " or "What is OpenArgs?"

I haven't used OpenArgs for many years and I wouldn't suggest that it's the
way I would pass information to a Form that I open.

I would open the form with
Form_FormName.W hateverProperty = WhateverInforma tion
or if there were mucho stuff to pass I would set a reference to a new
instance of the form.

I guess this explains why I am unemployed.

--
Lyle Fairfield

[CDMAPoster]

Lyle Fairfield wrote:

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localh ost.notwrote in
news:3GtCg.4236 4$gU4.39878@trn ddc07:

I have a colleague who occasionally hires subcontractors to do Access
work. He invariably includes as one of his "do-or-die" questions:
"How do you pass information to a Form that you open with
DoCmd.OpenForm? " or "What is OpenArgs?"

I haven't used OpenArgs for many years and I wouldn't suggest that it's the
way I would pass information to a Form that I open.

I would open the form with
Form_FormName.W hateverProperty = WhateverInforma tion
or if there were mucho stuff to pass I would set a reference to a new
instance of the form.

I guess this explains why I am unemployed.

--
Lyle Fairfield

I've forgotten how to create an option group. I use code because it
gives me more flexibility. I haven't created an option group in years.
I'd probably fail a similar shibboleth. But I'm still employed in
spite of such an egregious lacuna.

James A. Fortune
CD********@Fort uneJames.com