The big shots

[castironpi]

I'm a little dissatisfied, and just thinking aloud.

Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.

Lesser individuals than they could not have invented Python, and would
be liable to ban me merely for this post. Notwithstanding.

The reason they have cited is, "It is not in prevalent use."

The printing press, rail, automobiles, and Python, were not in
prevalent use before their invention. I.e., they -can't- come if one
doesn't build it. However, there were writing, transportation, and
programming before these respectively; does it merely suffice to
answer, "Yes it is?"

The Python gurus' combined professional judgement results in Python.

Looking through http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ , their own proposals
don't meet their own criteria. Start there.

It is neither necessary nor sufficient that an expansion is or would
be used.

[Steve Holden]

ca********@gmail.com wrote:

I'm a little dissatisfied, and just thinking aloud.

Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.

Lesser individuals than they could not have invented Python, and would
be liable to ban me merely for this post. Notwithstanding.

The reason they have cited is, "It is not in prevalent use."

The printing press, rail, automobiles, and Python, were not in
prevalent use before their invention. I.e., they -can't- come if one
doesn't build it. However, there were writing, transportation, and
programming before these respectively; does it merely suffice to
answer, "Yes it is?"

The Python gurus' combined professional judgement results in Python.

Looking through http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ , their own proposals
don't meet their own criteria. Start there.

It is neither necessary nor sufficient that an expansion is or would
be used.

Well it isn't a democracy, that's true. The "big shots" are the people
who have proven themselves capable not only of *having* good ideas but
also seeing them through into implementation.

I don't believe anyone would argue that Python is the best language for
absolutely every purpose, but it's pretty damned good for most of the
tings I want to do, so I guess I am in favor of letting "the big shots"
continue to ignore half-baked ideas :)

No process is perfect. If you want to change the python development
process you'll have to join the developers.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/

[Aahz]

In article <89**********************************@e23g2000prf. googlegroups.com>,
<ca********@gmail.comwrote:

>
I'm a little dissatisfied, and just thinking aloud.

What exactly are you dissatisfied with? This post reminds me of one
reason why your ideas have not been well received: it is difficult to
understand what your point is.

Perhaps English is not your native language; if that is the case, you may
wish to either improve your proficiency or find someone else that you can
use your native language with to act as your champion. (I'm not
denigrating you for not knowing English; it is simply a fact that most
Python core development takes place in English, and many of the core
developers -- including Guido himself, MaL, and MvL -- are not native
speakers, either.)

>Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.

What do you mean by "alphas"?
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <* http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of
indirection." --Butler Lampson

[Paul Rubin]

aa**@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.

What do you mean by "alphas"?

Alpha test releases are the round of test distributions before the
beta tests, which come before the release candidates which come before
the final release. Ever since Python 2.4, Python's functools module
has supported partial evaluation, bundling up some of the arguments to
a function into a closure (also called currying). See:

http://python.org/doc/lib/module-functools

Apparently some stuff from python-ideas has been curried into closures
using the version of that module from some early Python test releases.

I couldn't understand the rest of the post you're replying to either.
The above was the only part I could make any sense of.

[Aahz]

In article <7x************@ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin <http://ph****@NOSPAM.invalidwrote:

>aa**@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

>>ca********@gmail.com:

>>>
Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.

What do you mean by "alphas"?

Alpha test releases are the round of test distributions before the
beta tests, which come before the release candidates which come before
the final release.

Interesting, but I would bet that castironpi actually is referring to
"alpha males" (particularly in the context of "big shots"); however, your
confusion is precisely why I called it out. Incoherent writing rarely
flies well in this community (which is one reason why I love Python!).
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncraft.com) <* http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of
indirection." --Butler Lampson

[castironpi]

On Feb 18, 10:26*pm, [e-mail] (Aahz) wrote:

In article <[e-mail]>,
Paul Rubin *<http://[e-mail]:

[e-mail] (Aahz) writes:

>[e-mail]:

>>Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.

What do you mean by "alphas"?

Alpha test releases are the round of test distributions before the
beta tests, which come before the release candidates which come before
the final release. *

Interesting, but I would bet that castironpi actually is referring to
"alpha males" (particularly in the context of "big shots"); however, your
confusion is precisely why I called it out. *Incoherent writing rarely
flies well in this community (which is one reason why I love Python!).
--
Aahz ([e-mail]) * * * * * <** * * *http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of * *
indirection." *--Butler Lampson

Who you callin' denigrates? Ahem. You think your ships don't
sink? ;)

The problem did not seem to be miscommunication, rather bias.

What part of, "No one took the train before it was invented," do you
not understand?

No one climbed Mount Everest before it was discovered, and it wasn't
the tallest mountain until then either.

[Steve Holden]

ca********@gmail.com wrote:

On Feb 18, 10:26 pm, [e-mail] (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]>,
Paul Rubin <http://[e-mail]:

>>[e-mail] (Aahz) writes:
[e-mail]:
Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.
What do you mean by "alphas"?
Alpha test releases are the round of test distributions before the
beta tests, which come before the release candidates which come before
the final release.

Interesting, but I would bet that castironpi actually is referring to
"alpha males" (particularly in the context of "big shots"); however, your
confusion is precisely why I called it out. Incoherent writing rarely
flies well in this community (which is one reason why I love Python!).
--
Aahz ([e-mail]) <* http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of
indirection." --Butler Lampson

Who you callin' denigrates? Ahem. You think your ships don't
sink? ;)

Humor. Arf arf.

The problem did not seem to be miscommunication, rather bias.

What part of, "No one took the train before it was invented," do you
not understand?

The problem with this complaint is you simply seem to be saying "there's
a better language out there somewhere". No clue as to where it is, no
clue as to how it might be approached. Merely a suggestion that adding
randomly suggested features to Python, that are currently rejected for
what appear to me to be mostly sound reasons, will somehow lead us to
these undiscovered treasures.

No one climbed Mount Everest before it was discovered, and it wasn't
the tallest mountain until then either.

It *was* the tallest mountain - it existed before its discovery, and its
"discovery" wasn't news to the Sherpas who had been living on it for
hundreds of years.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/

[Steve Holden]

ca********@gmail.com wrote:

On Feb 18, 10:26 pm, [e-mail] (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]>,
Paul Rubin <http://[e-mail]:

>>[e-mail] (Aahz) writes:
[e-mail]:
Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.
What do you mean by "alphas"?
Alpha test releases are the round of test distributions before the
beta tests, which come before the release candidates which come before
the final release.

Interesting, but I would bet that castironpi actually is referring to
"alpha males" (particularly in the context of "big shots"); however, your
confusion is precisely why I called it out. Incoherent writing rarely
flies well in this community (which is one reason why I love Python!).
--
Aahz ([e-mail]) <* http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of
indirection." --Butler Lampson

Who you callin' denigrates? Ahem. You think your ships don't
sink? ;)

Humor. Arf arf.

The problem did not seem to be miscommunication, rather bias.

What part of, "No one took the train before it was invented," do you
not understand?

The problem with this complaint is you simply seem to be saying "there's
a better language out there somewhere". No clue as to where it is, no
clue as to how it might be approached. Merely a suggestion that adding
randomly suggested features to Python, that are currently rejected for
what appear to me to be mostly sound reasons, will somehow lead us to
these undiscovered treasures.

No one climbed Mount Everest before it was discovered, and it wasn't
the tallest mountain until then either.

It *was* the tallest mountain - it existed before its discovery, and its
"discovery" wasn't news to the Sherpas who had been living on it for
hundreds of years.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/

[castironpi]

On Feb 18, 11:22*pm, Steve Holden <[e-mail]:

[e-mail] wrote:

On Feb 18, 10:26 pm, [e-mail] (Aahz) wrote:

In article <[e-mail]>,
Paul Rubin *<http://[e-mail]:

>[e-mail] (Aahz) writes:
[e-mail]:
Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.
What do you mean by "alphas"?
Alpha test releases are the round of test distributions before the
beta tests, which come before the release candidates which come before
the final release. *
Interesting, but I would bet that castironpi actually is referring to
"alpha males" (particularly in the context of "big shots"); however, your
confusion is precisely why I called it out. *Incoherent writing rarely
flies well in this community (which is one reason why I love Python!).
--
Aahz ([e-mail]) * * * * * <** * * *http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of **
indirection." *--Butler Lampson

Who you callin' denigrates? *Ahem. *You think your ships don't
sink? *;)

Humor. Arf arf.

The problem did not seem to be miscommunication, rather bias.

What part of, "No one took the train before it was invented," do you
not understand?

The problem with this complaint is you simply seem to be saying "there's
a better language out there somewhere". No clue as to where it is, no
clue as to how it might be approached. Merely a suggestion that adding
randomly suggested features to Python, that are currently rejected for
what appear to me to be mostly sound reasons, will somehow lead us to
these undiscovered treasures.

No one climbed Mount Everest before it was discovered, and it wasn't
the tallest mountain until then either.

It *was* the tallest mountain - it existed before its discovery, and its
"discovery" wasn't news to the Sherpas who had been living on it for
hundreds of years.

They hadn't discovered it -ei-ther! What is Mount Everest!?

Anyway, I am saying, "there's a good feature out there."

As I've said before: library additions are one thing; syntax changes
are another.

What, in terms of the former, do the gurus rule -out- point blank?

[Gabriel Genellina]

En Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:14:10 -0200, <ca********@gmail.comescribió:

I'm a little dissatisfied, and just thinking aloud.

Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.

(Note that I'm not a Python alpha, I don't vote, approve nor reject
anything).

I skip your posts lately. Not because I have anything against you, not at
all. Just because it takes too much time for me to make any sense of what
you write, and I can't spend so much time in a single message.

This may or may not be related to your English skills (I'm not a native
English speaker, as several others in this group). Perhaps you just write
the first thing that comes to your mind at any time; but when I read that,
it looks like a random collection of phrases to me. My ex-neighbor spoke
in that way too; it was too difficult for me to follow him sometimes. The
same happened with an old girlfriend of mine; after a long speech about
the benefits of hydratation on the human being, how important is not to
forget it on winter, and how she broke a cup last Thursday, I had to
deduce: it *is* winter now, she likes tea, It must be Lipton (remember the
brand!!), her favourite cup is broken and I must find a clone... Saying "I
want a cup of tea" was not an option: too simple for her :)

I think the same happens with you. Maybe your thoughts are crystal clear
in your mind, but I'm unable to understand you, sorry.

--
Gabriel Genellina

[George Sakkis]

On Feb 19, 12:08 am, [e-mail] wrote:

The problem did not seem to be miscommunication, rather bias.

IMHO it's partly because of the obscurity of the ideas and the code
you suggest, and partly because of the poor job you do to explain
them.

By the way, you may have noticed that you have been mostly replying to
your own posts here in c.l.py, which indicates that the lack of
responses has nothing to do with the supposed snobbishness of the "big
shots".

George

[Diez B. Roggisch]

ca********@gmail.com schrieb:

I'm a little dissatisfied, and just thinking aloud.

Some of the ideas that have been proposed on Python-ideas as well as
Python, have received partial evaluation from the alphas.

Lesser individuals than they could not have invented Python, and would
be liable to ban me merely for this post. Notwithstanding.

The reason they have cited is, "It is not in prevalent use."

The printing press, rail, automobiles, and Python, were not in
prevalent use before their invention. I.e., they -can't- come if one
doesn't build it. However, there were writing, transportation, and
programming before these respectively; does it merely suffice to
answer, "Yes it is?"

The Python gurus' combined professional judgement results in Python.

Looking through http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ , their own proposals
don't meet their own criteria. Start there.

It is neither necessary nor sufficient that an expansion is or would
be used.

I don't get it as well - in all other open-source-communities I've been
participating, the anonymous wacko shelling out half-baked,
incomprehensible ideas faster than a gatling gun *immediately* had the
full attention of the big-wigs, and after a short time became project lead.

No idea what's wrong with these people here - but I bet if you team up
with Illias, you can start working on his language-to-rule-them-all in
no time, shortening the delivery goal of 2011 immensly.

Looking-forward-to-it-ly yours,

Diez

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Diez B. Roggisch a écrit :

ca********@gmail.com schrieb:

>I'm a little dissatisfied, and just thinking aloud.

(snip remaining of mostly inarticulate post, just couldn't make sens of
it - as usual)

No idea what's wrong with these people here - but I bet if you team up
with Illias, you can start working on his language-to-rule-them-all in
no time, shortening the delivery goal of 2011 immensly.

Hum... Perhaps a bit harsh, but there's something here : castironpi's
posts definitively have something in common with Illias' ones. Couldn't
name exactly what, but still...

<op>
If you really hope to get any serious attention, stop whining and learn
to express yourself clearly. This won't necessarily make anybody agree
with your proposals, but at least chances are someone will read them.
</op>

[castironpi]

On Feb 19, 5:17*am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
[e-mail]:

Diez B. Roggisch a écrit :[e-mail] schrieb:

I'm a little dissatisfied, and just thinking aloud.

(snip remaining of mostly inarticulate post, just couldn't make sens of
it - as usual)

No idea what's wrong with these people here - but I bet if you team up
with Illias, you can start working on his language-to-rule-them-all in
no time, shortening the delivery goal of 2011 immensly.

Hum... Perhaps a bit harsh, but there's something here : castironpi's
posts definitively have something in common with Illias' ones. Couldn't
name exactly what, but still...

<op>
If you really hope to get any serious attention, stop whining and learn
to express yourself clearly. This won't necessarily make anybody agree
with your proposals, but at least chances are someone will read them.
</op>

Ok, take this one. C is faster than Python. It would be useful, in
certain cases, to write C.

It is possible but inconvenient, out of the way.

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C function in a Python context
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....f79dd12e81912/

A simple compile and link function. Useful for basic cases; if you
want to get fancy, don't use it.

My suspicion is that my choices of message subjects, function names,
and variable names, is the biggest hang up.

[Carsten Haese]

On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 12:49 -0800, ca********@gmail.com wrote:

Ok, take this one. C is faster than Python. It would be useful, in
certain cases, to write C.

It is possible but inconvenient, out of the way.

Making that easier is a worthy goal...

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C function in a Python context
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....f79dd12e81912/

A simple compile and link function. Useful for basic cases; if you
want to get fancy, don't use it.

....and THAT's your solution?!? That solution is more insane than clever.
I enjoy thinking outside the box as much as anybody, but requiring the
run-time environment to have a compiler so that it can compile a piece
of "inline C code" every time the program is run is absolutely
ludicrous.

My suspicion is that my choices of message subjects, function names,
and variable names, is the biggest hang up.

I think your biggest hangup is that you believe too much in your own
creativity. There are already viable solutions out there for integrating
C and Python: Pyrex, Cython, and ctypes come to mind.

--
Carsten Haese
http://informixdb.sourceforge.net

[castironpi]

On Feb 19, 3:15*pm, Carsten Haese <[e-mail]:

On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 12:49 -0800, [e-mail] wrote:

Ok, take this one. *C is faster than Python. *It would be useful, in
certain cases, to write C.

It is possible but inconvenient, out of the way.

Making that easier is a worthy goal...

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C function in a Python context
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....frm/thread/cd2...

A simple compile and link function. *Useful for basic cases; if you
want to get fancy, don't use it.

...and THAT's your solution?!? That solution is more insane than clever.
I enjoy thinking outside the box as much as anybody, but requiring the
run-time environment to have a compiler so that it can compile a piece
of "inline C code" every time the program is run is absolutely
ludicrous.

My suspicion is that my choices of message subjects, function names,
and variable names, is the biggest hang up.

I think your biggest hangup is that you believe too much in your own
creativity. There are already viable solutions out there for integrating
C and Python: Pyrex, Cython, and ctypes come to mind.

--
Carsten Haesehttp://informixdb.sourceforge.net

OH YEAH. Color me absent-minded. File under "No, they're not
compiled."

On the other hand, a number of modules are not available on all
platforms. 'extcode' is merely not available on all machines.

[castironpi]

On Feb 19, 12:37*am, George Sakkis <[e-mail]:

On Feb 19, 12:08 am, [e-mail] wrote:

The problem did not seem to be miscommunication, rather bias.

IMHO it's partly because of the obscurity of the ideas and the code
you suggest, and partly because of the poor job you do to explain
them.

By the way, you may have noticed that you have been mostly replying to
your own posts here in c.l.py, which indicates that the lack of
responses has nothing to do with the supposed snobbishness of the "big
shots".

George

I'm going to start marking my subjective comments with a star, so it's
clear what is emperically verifiable, and what is not.

It's a bad sign. If you aren't keeping your thoughts to yourself, and
thrashing about the world for a peer, a social network, a support
group, or a community, then you missed the day in grammar school when
they were handing out smiles. But they're not handing them out
anymore.

Even on my emperical claims, I'm wrong 90% of the time. On the
subjective ones, I'm not only wrong that much, but no one else want to
hear, or even can verify them. Smell's fine to me.

Emotions are prejudiced; and even in my own concrete thoughts, I will
misidentify myself with another, and others with me. When I say "I",
I mean "you."

French and Spanish have impersonal pronouns: "on" and "se",
respectively. In English, they often come out as, "we", "they", and
"you" a lot, on occasion a "one", and sometimes, even, I.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-02-19, ca********@gmail.com <ca********@gmail.comwrote:

I'm going to start marking my subjective comments with a star,
so it's clear what is emperically verifiable, and what is not.

It's a bad sign.

I've no idea what "it" refers to in the sentence above.

If you aren't keeping your thoughts to yourself, and thrashing
about the world for a peer, a social network, a support group,
or a community, then you missed the day in grammar school when
they were handing out smiles. But they're not handing them
out anymore.

To me, that appears to be a completely random homile, appropos
of nothing. Even as a homily, it doesn't really make any
sense.

Even on my emperical claims, I'm wrong 90% of the time. On
the subjective ones, I'm not only wrong that much, but no one
else want to hear, or even can verify them. Smell's fine to
me.

Emotions are prejudiced; and even in my own concrete thoughts,
I will misidentify myself with another, and others with me.
When I say "I", I mean "you."

I've no idea what your point is. I guess you're trying to
explain why your posts appear to be semi-random nonsense?

French and Spanish have impersonal pronouns: "on" and "se",
respectively. In English, they often come out as, "we",
"they", and "you" a lot, on occasion a "one", and sometimes,
even, I.

Perhaps you need somebody who's fluent in English to help you
proofread your posts? Or help you tune the Eliza program
you're using to generate them?

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm encased in the
at lining of a pure pork
visi.com sausage!!

[castironpi]

On Feb 19, 4:25*pm, Grant Edwards <[e-mail]:

On 2008-02-19, [e-mail] <[e-mail]:

I'm going to start marking my subjective comments with a star,
so it's clear what is emperically verifiable, and what is not.

It's a bad sign.

I've no idea what "it" refers to in the sentence above.

If you aren't keeping your thoughts to yourself, and thrashing
about the world for a peer, a social network, a support group,
or a community, then you missed the day in grammar school when
they were handing out smiles. *But they're not handing them
out anymore.

To me, that appears to be a completely random homile, appropos
of nothing. *Even as a homily, it doesn't really make any
sense.

Even on my emperical claims, I'm wrong 90% of the time. *On
the subjective ones, I'm not only wrong that much, but no one
else want to hear, or even can verify them. *Smell's fine to
me.

Emotions are prejudiced; and even in my own concrete thoughts,
I will misidentify myself with another, and others with me.
When I say "I", I mean "you."

I've no idea what your point is. *I guess you're trying to
explain why your posts appear to be semi-random nonsense?

French and Spanish have impersonal pronouns: "on" and "se",
respectively. *In English, they often come out as, "we",
"they", and "you" a lot, on occasion a "one", and sometimes,
even, I.

Perhaps you need somebody who's fluent in English to help you
proofread your posts? *Or help you tune the Eliza program
you're using to generate them?

--
Grant Edwards * * * * * * * * * grante * * * * * * Yow! I'm encased in the
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * at ** * * * * * lining of a pure pork
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *visi.com * * * * * *sausage!!

What is a a homile? My point was, that if someone is trying to make
friends, and either failing or forgetting success, then call a social
worker. Or, reach out.

By the way, you may have noticed that you have been mostly replying to
your own posts here in c.l.py, which indicates that the lack of

It.

[castironpi]

On Feb 19, 3:48*pm, [e-mail] wrote:

On Feb 19, 3:15*pm, Carsten Haese <[e-mail]:

On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 12:49 -0800, [e-mail] wrote:

Ok, take this one. *C is faster than Python. *It would be useful, in
certain cases, to write C.

It is possible but inconvenient, out of the way.

Making that easier is a worthy goal...

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C function in a Python context
>http://groups.google.com/group/comp....frm/thread/cd2....

A simple compile and link function. *Useful for basic cases; if you
want to get fancy, don't use it.

...and THAT's your solution?!? That solution is more insane than clever.
I enjoy thinking outside the box as much as anybody, but requiring the
run-time environment to have a compiler so that it can compile a piece
of "inline C code" every time the program is run is absolutely
ludicrous.

My suspicion is that my choices of message subjects, function names,
and variable names, is the biggest hang up.

I think your biggest hangup is that you believe too much in your own
creativity. There are already viable solutions out there for integrating
C and Python: Pyrex, Cython, and ctypes come to mind.

--
Carsten Haesehttp://informixdb.sourceforge.net

OH YEAH. *Color me absent-minded. *File under "No, they're not
compiled."

On the other hand, a number of modules are not available on all
platforms. *'extcode' is merely not available on all machines.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

May I insist? By the criteria you've mentioned so far, nothing rules
out 'ext'. If it's still a bad idea, there's a reason. What is it?

[George Sakkis]

On Feb 19, 5:25*pm, Grant Edwards <[e-mail]:

On 2008-02-19, [e-mail] <[e-mail]:

Even on my emperical claims, I'm wrong 90% of the time. On
the subjective ones, I'm not only wrong that much, but no one
else want to hear, or even can verify them. Smell's fine to
me.

Emotions are prejudiced; and even in my own concrete thoughts,
I will misidentify myself with another, and others with me.
When I say "I", I mean "you."

I've no idea what your point is. I guess you're trying to
explain why your posts appear to be semi-random nonsense?

Reminds me of a reply I read in a forum once: "It sounds like English;
it even looks like English, but I can't understand a word you're
blabbering."

French and Spanish have impersonal pronouns: "on" and "se",
respectively. In English, they often come out as, "we",
"they", and "you" a lot, on occasion a "one", and sometimes,
even, I.

Perhaps you need somebody who's fluent in English to help you
proofread your posts? Or help you tune the Eliza program
you're using to generate them?

Grant, thanks for the laugh.. this was hilarious :)

George

[bruno.desthuilliers]

On 19 fév, 21:49, [e-mail] wrote:

On Feb 19, 5:17 am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.

[e-mail]:

Diez B. Roggisch a écrit :[e-mail] schrieb:

>I'm a little dissatisfied, and just thinking aloud.

(snip remaining of mostly inarticulate post, just couldn't make sens of
it - as usual)

No idea what's wrong with these people here - but I bet if you team up
with Illias, you can start working on his language-to-rule-them-all in
no time, shortening the delivery goal of 2011 immensly.

Hum... Perhaps a bit harsh, but there's something here : castironpi's
posts definitively have something in common with Illias' ones. Couldn't
name exactly what, but still...

<op>
If you really hope to get any serious attention, stop whining and learn
to express yourself clearly. This won't necessarily make anybody agree
with your proposals, but at least chances are someone will read them.
</op>

Ok, take this one. C is faster than Python.

C and Python are *languages* - that is, a grammar and a syntax. I fail
to see how a qualificative like "fast" can apply to a grammar+syntax.

Did you mean that "the same program written in C and compiled to
native code is faster than when written in Python and executed using
the CPython runtime" ?

It would be useful, in
certain cases, to write C.

Possibly, but this has nothing to do with Python.

It is possible but inconvenient, out of the way.

What is inconvenient ? Writing C code ? Compiling it ? Distributing
the compiled executable or library ?

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C function in a Python contexthttp://groups.google.com/group/comp..lang.python/browse_frm/thread/cd2...

OMG ! LordHaveMercy(tm).

My suspicion is that my choices of message subjects, function names,
and variable names, is the biggest hang up.

My suspicion is that you should read the whole DailyWTF archives - for
educational purpose.

[Carsten Haese]

On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 14:43 -0800, ca********@gmail.com wrote:

May I insist? By the criteria you've mentioned so far, nothing rules
out 'ext'. If it's still a bad idea, there's a reason. What is it?

I didn't "rule out" 'ext'. I have no say over what goes or doesn't go
into the Python standard library. I am the maintainer if a third-party
extension module that has approximately hundreds of users, and I would
never dream of trying to get it included in the standard library.

I expressed my opinion that 'ext' is an insane idea. I wouldn't use it,
but that shouldn't stop you from using it. Neither should my opinion
stop you from trying to sell 'ext'. If it's really as good as you think
it is, you'll be rich in no time.

Good luck,

--
Carsten Haese
http://informixdb.sourceforge.net

[Gabriel Genellina]

En Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:19:29 -0200, <ca********@gmail.comescribió:

But 'ext' is actually good.

Even if it were, that alone doesn't mean it should be included in the
stdlib.

Start writting a recipe in the Python Cookbook:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/
Upload the module to the Python Package Index: http://pypi.python.org/pypi
Post a notice in the announcement list.
Wait for user feedback. Listen. Improve it. Make it so good that everyone
would love to have it always available. Commit yourself to maintain the
module forever. Suggest inclusion in the stdlib.

--
Gabriel Genellina

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-02-19, ca********@gmail.com <ca********@gmail.comwrote:

What is a a homile?

It's a misspelling of homily. :)

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! It's hard being
at an ARTIST!!
visi.com

[Sergio Correia]

I don't get this thread. At all. I want my 15 minutes back.

(OTOH, some of your replies were quite funny or interesting, including
- as usual - Gabriel and Steve's)

On Feb 19, 2008 11:29 PM, Grant Edwards <gr****@visi.comwrote:

On 2008-02-19, ca********@gmail.com <ca********@gmail.comwrote:

What is a a homile?

It's a misspelling of homily. :)

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! It's hard being
at an ARTIST!!
visi.com

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[Carsten Haese]

On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 13:48 -0800, ca********@gmail.com wrote:

OH YEAH. Color me absent-minded. File under "No, they're not
compiled."

I'd ask what you're trying to say here if I had any hope of
understanding the answer. It is becoming clear to me that I am not
worthy of communicating with you.

Best regards,

--
Carsten Haese
http://informixdb.sourceforge.net

[Marco Mariani]

Sergio Correia wrote:

I don't get this thread. At all. I want my 15 minutes back.

I think it's a sort of Turing test, to fine-tune some spammer's text
generating algorithm.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-02-20, Marco Mariani <ma***@sferacarta.comwrote:

Sergio Correia wrote:

>I don't get this thread. At all. I want my 15 minutes back.

I think it's a sort of Turing test,

You're probably right, and I think I failed the test.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Am I in GRADUATE
at SCHOOL yet?
visi.com

[Preston Landers]

On Feb 19, 7:19 pm, [e-mail] wrote:

If not, how about these:

- It doesn't match the rest of the language
- It's too cutting edge
- It is too hard to handle
- It would get out of hand really quickly
- I can't control you anymore after I let it in
- The functionality already exists per se
- It is to the rest of the language as wires #3, #4, and #5 are to RCA
cables
- HTML 4.01 is not an improvement over HTML 4.0

?

If still not, how about these:

- It hurts my feelings
- It foils my revenge
- I'd rather you toil meanially
- Tedious is good
- You shouldn't have power
- But I'm greedy
- We can't afford it

?

I think your tin foil hat may screwed on a wee bit tight.

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

Dotan Cohen wrote:

> French and Spanish have impersonal pronouns: "on" and "se",
respectively. In English, they often come out as, "we", "they", and
"you" a lot, on occasion a "one", and sometimes, even, I.

In Hebrew, we have 8 different words for "you". That does not affect
my English communications, however.

Also, let's not forget that the English language has "one" as an
impersonal pronoun.

/W
(BTW: Don't feed the bot. ;) )

[Kay Schluehr]

On 19 Feb., 04:14, [e-mail] wrote:

The printing press, rail, automobiles, and Python, were not in
prevalent use before their invention.

True but automobiles fuelled with newspapers and driven by Pythons
still aren't. Right?

Not entirely sure what you are after but it sounds much like the quite
familiar Guido-doesn't-give-Python-newbies-enough-freedom-to-change-
the-language father complex.

[castironpi]

On Feb 19, 7:52*pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

En Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:19:29 -0200, <[e-mail]ó:

But 'ext' is actually good.

Even if it were, that alone doesn't mean it should be included in the *
stdlib.

Start writting a recipe in the Python Cookbook: *http://aspn.activestate..com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/
Upload the module to the Python Package Index:http://pypi.python.org/pypi
Post a notice in the announcement list.
Wait for user feedback. Listen. Improve it. Make it so good that everyone *
would love to have it always available. Commit yourself to maintain the *
module forever. Suggest inclusion in the stdlib.

--
Gabriel Genellina

I don't know what "everyone" "would love" to have "always available".
I'm baffled that anyone ever pretends to (know).

"No, but nobody likes it."
"What?"

If cl-py is not the right place for personal exchanges, then get
going.

I am seeking a rational, informed, constructive evaluation of the
merits and demerits of 'ext'.

It's also productive to characterize trends of things in the std.
lib., and I could even see that discussion arising from this one.
It's just up to us whether it's in the same thread or not.

[castironpi]

On Feb 20, 1:14*pm, Kay Schluehr <[e-mail]:

On 19 Feb., 04:14, [e-mail] wrote:

The printing press, rail, automobiles, and Python, were not in
prevalent use before their invention.

True but automobiles fuelled with newspapers and driven by Pythons
still aren't. Right?

Not entirely sure what you are after but it sounds much like the quite
familiar Guido-doesn't-give-Python-newbies-enough-freedom-to-change-
the-language father complex.

Now -that- makes sense. I'm asking him to change and do something
different. I can see how that would take a lot of patient
persuading. Clearly I don't know what it is that goes into other
proposals either. But why am I not getting the same responses that
new ideas from others get?

My writing isn't unclear, just watered-down, and perhaps takes a
tangent.

It's also pretty clear at a glance what the snippet in 'ext' does. If
everyone is asking what extensions and abstractions I want to make, I
may be in the minority in how open I am to contributions. As it
stands it's pretty good too.

If the concern is not merely what goes in, but what the authors do
with the status that grants, that's something that I can not say or
show you without consistency and establishing myself in a reliable
place; it's not that they want to keep every half-baked idea out of
the std. lib., it's that they want to keep the credit somewhat
unified, and who it goes to is important. I understand; just say so--
"no, not from you, until we meet you."

The unified-credit wish may not even be vicious, and actually be
rational, if the consequences come back on the language's reputation,
and that reputation extends outside and beyond of its de facto
merits. If there's a mystique and mystery surrounding it, that the
"big wigs" value, then that explains the "yes but who" reaction. But
other things might too, so I'm not pointing fingers. A=B; A; |||
B. A?

[Ben Finney]

ca********@gmail.com writes:

On Feb 20, 6:02Â*pm, Ben Finney <[e-mail]>
wrote:

For what it's worth, I've found none of your threads in the last
few weeks to make much sense at all, because of unclear and
incoherent writing. On that basis, I dismiss them before trying to
re-read them, because I don't want to spend my time trying to find
sense in them that may not be there at all.

How do I "bake" this idea? [loads of further verbiage apparently
nothing to do with what Ben Finney wrote]

Here's another example of the above point. I've no idea what the
context is supposed to be of all the stuff you just wrote in your
message. It's also written in a fractured style that makes it very
difficult to follow. Hence, I tune out.

Are further problems a) miscommunication or b) absence of content?
If Holden and Genellina don't follow, that's a strong sign that the
structure of my proposals is really bad, even if there's a good
thing behind it. You just have to solve (a) before you solve (b),
which makes devoting resources to (a) a little preliminary.

Agreed. I'll wait until you have better results from improving
communication before I devote further resources to your messages.

--
\ "It's a good thing we have gravity or else when birds died |
`\ they'd just stay right up there. Hunters would be all |
_o__) confused." -- Steven Wright |
Ben Finney

[Steven D'Aprano]

Trying to decipher the fractured, incoherent ramblings of castironpi has
lost it's amusement value. I no longer care whether the poster is a bot,
or a loser nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is with few social
skills, or even a troll just playing games. I just want it to stop.

Can people PLEASE stop replying to castironpi until he has something
sensible to say?

--
Steven

[castironpi]

On Feb 20, 7:57*pm, Steven D'Aprano <st...@REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.auwrote:

Trying to decipher the fractured, incoherent ramblings of castironpi has
lost it's amusement value. I no longer care whether the poster is a bot,
or a loser nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is with few social
skills, or even a troll just playing games. I just want it to stop.

Can people PLEASE stop replying to castironpi until he has something
sensible to say?

--
Steven

I'll be the first. Joke.

I get the feeling you guys mostly respond like this:

"Yeah, yeah. It's a function that compiles C from within Python.
That's pretty cool, but I already know how to do it, and I do when I
need to. It doesn't encapsulate anything horrible, like urllib does,
or string handling or anything. In fact, the abstractions in Python.h
are pretty darn well encapsulated anyway, which means that your
proposal doesn't accomplish any major steps."

Well, how'd I do?