I don't know if this is a fair comparison or not. Any comments
appreciated.
- Python is more readable, and more general purpose
- PHP has awful backward compatibility
- PHP has a lower barrier to entry
- Most inexpensive web-hosters support PHP, but not Python
- PHP has far more pre-writen scripts available
- Newer versions of mod_python require Apache 2.0, which few hosters
have
- There is more demand for PHP developers, than Python developers
Nov 14 '06
50  2664 
walterbyrd a écrit :
Michael Torrie wrote:
>>Absolutely false. Most of my standalone, command-line scripts for
manipulatin g my unix users in LDAP are written in PHP, although we're
rewriting them in python.
I would say that you are one of very few who use PHP for sys-admin
tasks - and even you have switched to Python. In general, it does not
seem to me that PHP has caught on as a sys-admin language.
However, as sys-admin scripting langanges go, I would also say that
Python is far less popular than butt-ugly Perl. Again - just based on
what I've seen.
Perl is a scripting language. By 'design'. It's meant to be a better
sh+sed+awk. Python is a general purpose programming language meant to
fill the gap between shell scripts and C programs. So Perl is obviously
a better scripting language than Python. The problem is that Q&D
sys-admin scripts tend to become full-blown apps - and then, Perl starts
to suck.
walterbyrd a écrit :
Luis M. González wrote:
>>the new crop of web frameworks (Django, Turbo Gears, etc...).
>>>- Newer versions of mod_python require Apache 2.0, which few hosters
have
You can also get alder versions of mod_python. What's the problem?
The problem is that the system requirements for django and turbogears
are sky-high. I think Django requires Apache 2.0 (and maybe mod_python
3.x), and CherryPy (part of turbogears) requires Python 2.4.
Yes. Neither Apache 2.0 nor mod_python 3.x nor Python 2.4 are really
bleeding edge, you know.
If you are
developing for a hosted environment, this can be a big problem. Few
enough hosters provide python to begin with, then add to that such
requirements as apache 2.0 - and you left with almost nothing.
You mean there are web hosting companies that are still using Apache
1.3.x ?
C'mon, let's be serious. I just ordered a dedibox - a small dedicated
web server - for my personal use. It's only 30 euros a month, you know...
walterbyrd wrote:
Trying to be as fair as I can be, my research shows that demand for
developers where PHP is the primary is *far* higher than jobs where
Python is the primary skills.
Probably because PHP is so bug-prone and man-inefficient that a small
website occupies a programmer's whole time, whereas a single Python (or
Ruby, or Perl, or even Java) programmer could manage several web sites.
(If by "probable" I mean "wishful thinking", that is :)
Carl Banks
At Wednesday 15/11/2006 21:28, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>Michael Torrie a écrit :
On Tue, 2006-11-14 at 18:55 -0800, Luis M. González wrote:
>>- Python is more readable, and more general purpose
Yes, php is only for web.
Absolutely false.
From a purely technical POV, you're of course right. But PHP has been
hacked (nobody in it's own mind would pretend it has ever been
'designed') for web programming, and since the language by itself is
totally and definitively braindead, using it for anything else is either
masochism or lack of knowledge of better solutions. Heck, even Perl is
better for pure admin/scripting tasks.
Someone here (= at work) needed to write some PDF
reports, to be run from a bunch of ini-like
files. Without much research nor analysis nor
thinking nor approval, he said "let's use this
php library!". Surely the reports came in a few days. But:
- another dependency was added to the project
- the .ini format -which was suposed to be an
internal implementation detail- is now part of
the public interfase to the report generator
- a lot of PHP code duplicates the original class hierarchy (in delphi)
- php sucks :)
Of course there are a lot of unrelated issues
here, but I think that it's such a braindead
language which turns people into braindead programmers :)
--
Gabriel Genellina
Softlab SRL
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At Wednesday 15/11/2006 22:11, bruce wrote:
>interesting ongoing thread...
i've seen a number of these over the years.. my language is better than your
language!!
i'm sure this question on the php list would have findings/results that are
essentially opposite of what is being discussed here!
Sure. But after you realize that a language is just a tool to
complete a task, most of the discussions are meaningless. The
original post didn't say "python is better than php", and I think the
comparison is rather fair.
--
Gabriel Genellina
Softlab SRL
_______________ _______________ _______________ _____
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Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
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Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
walterbyrd a écrit :
You mean there are web hosting companies that are still using Apache
1.3.x ?
Practically all web-hosters still use Apache 1.3.x. Certainly all of
the lower priced hosters.
C'mon, let's be serious. I just ordered a dedibox - a small dedicated
web server - for my personal use. It's only 30 euros a month, you know...
What if I only need 25mb of space? I can that with a PHP hoster for $10
a year. That is about 1/36th the price that you posting about.
Maybe you don't mind paying 30 euros a month, but a lot others do.
Gabriel Genellina wrote:
- php sucks :)
I think that it's such a braindead
language which turns people into braindead programmers :)
In fairness, a lot of very serious work is done in PHP. I think yahoo
and other major web-sites use php.
I have issues with PHP as well. They will break backward compatibility
on a whim, and it is an ugly language - especially when mixed with
html. But, PHP does have it's streaths, and Python is not without it's
weaknesses.
In article <11************ **********@m73g 2000cwd.googleg roups.com>,
Luis M. González <lu*****@gmail. comwrote:
On 2006-11-15 20:59:26 -0500, "walterbyrd " <wa********@ina me.comsaid:
>
Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>walterbyrd a écrit :
>You mean there are web hosting companies that are still using Apache
1.3.x ?
Practically all web-hosters still use Apache 1.3.x. Certainly all of
the lower priced hosters.
Not true. Dreamhost, at least, uses Apache 2.
>
>C'mon, let's be serious. I just ordered a dedibox - a small dedicated
web server - for my personal use. It's only 30 euros a month, you know...
What if I only need 25mb of space? I can that with a PHP hoster for $10
a year. That is about 1/36th the price that you posting about.
Maybe you don't mind paying 30 euros a month, but a lot others do.
Of course, you can't get $10 a year plans on Dreamhost. But with deals
you can get it down to about that low, at least for the first year. I
suppose I'm lucky enough not to miss $8 a month otherwise.
Best,
James
bruce wrote:
ummm bruno...
you don't 'need' apache to run php.
in fact, although i'm from the old hard c/c++ world.... way before web apps,
i haven't really found much for most general apps (not ui/not threaded
stuff) that php can't do..
You simply haven't been looking hard enough.
regards
Steve
--
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Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
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- PHP has awful backward compatibility
- PHP has a lower barrier to entry
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