pyvm -- faster python

[Stelios Xanthakis]

Hi.

pyvm is a program which can run python 2.4 bytecode (the .pyc files).
A demo pre-release is available at:
http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/pyvm/
Facts about pyvm:
- It's FAST. According to the "cooked-bench" benchmark suite it finishes
in 55% of the time python takes;)
- It's SMALL. Currently the source code is under 15k lines with the
builtin modules.
- It's new. Uses no code from CPython.
- It's incomplete. Not even near the stability and quality of python.
It needs A LOT of work before it can be compared to CPython.
Moreover, at the time it lacks many things like closures, long numbers
new style classes, etc.
- It's incompatible with CPython. Not all programs run.
- The C API is incompatible. You can't run C modules (a thin wrapper to
make pyvm appear as libpython *could* be possible but not a goal
AFAIC)
- The demo is an x86/linux binary only. You shouldn't trust binaries,
run it in a chrooted environment not as root!

Hope it works!

Cheers,

Stelios

[Kay Schluehr]

Stelios Xanthakis wrote:

Hi.

pyvm is a program which can run python 2.4 bytecode (the .pyc files).
A demo pre-release is available at:
http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/pyvm/
Facts about pyvm:
- It's FAST. According to the "cooked-bench" benchmark suite it finishes in 55% of the time python takes;)
- It's SMALL. Currently the source code is under 15k lines with the
builtin modules.
- It's new. Uses no code from CPython.
- It's incomplete. Not even near the stability and quality of python.
It needs A LOT of work before it can be compared to CPython.
Moreover, at the time it lacks many things like closures, long numbers new style classes, etc.
- It's incompatible with CPython. Not all programs run.
- The C API is incompatible. You can't run C modules (a thin wrapper to make pyvm appear as libpython *could* be possible but not a goal
AFAIC)
- The demo is an x86/linux binary only. You shouldn't trust binaries,
run it in a chrooted environment not as root!

Hope it works!

Cheers,

Stelios

Hi Stelios,

could You tell us a bit more about Your motivation to create an
alternative C-Python interpreter? There is AFAIK no such ambitious
project that has ever survived. The last one I remember died shortly
after it was born:

http://www.python.org/pycon/papers/pymite/

This is sad because it is still challenging to offer a tiny interpreter
of a dynamic language for glue code/RAD on tiny hardware. A lot of
effort was spent to provide Java for microcontroller s especially for
SmartCards. I think a lot of people would show interest in Your project
if it gets somehow focussed and does not seem to be redundant.

Ciao,
Kay

[bearophileHUGS]

I've seen the benchmarks, they look quite interesting.

This project is probably a LOT of work; maybe people can tell us about
such efforts *before* doing so much work, so we can discuss it, and
avoid wasting time.

Maybe you can explain us why it is so fast, and/or maybe you can work
with the other developers to improve the speed of the normal CPython,
this can require equal or less work for you, and it can produce more
long-lasting results/consequences for your work.

Bye,
Bearophile

[Peter Hansen]

Kay Schluehr wrote:

Stelios Xanthakis wrote:

pyvm is a program which can run python 2.4 bytecode (the .pyc files).
A demo pre-release is available at:
http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~sxanth/pyvm/

could You tell us a bit more about Your motivation to create an
alternative C-Python interpreter? There is AFAIK no such ambitious
project that has ever survived. ..

If you check the URL more closely, you'll notice that this is a
university site.

It seem likely this being done at least partly as a school project,
which is certainly motivation enough for such a thing, *even* if it
doesn't survive (since it will pay for itself in learning).

-Peter

[Roger Binns]

> could You tell us a bit more about Your motivation to create an

alternative C-Python interpreter?

I'd also be curious to know if the performance gains would remain
once it gets fleshed out with things like closures, long numbers,
new style classes and a C library compatibility shim.

Roger

[Paul Rubin]

Stelios Xanthakis <sx****@ceid.up atras.gr> writes:

- The demo is an x86/linux binary only. You shouldn't trust binaries,
run it in a chrooted environment not as root!

Are you going to release the source? If not, it's a lot less interesting.

[djw]

Paul Rubin wrote:

Stelios Xanthakis <sx****@ceid.up atras.gr> writes:

- The demo is an x86/linux binary only. You shouldn't trust binaries,
run it in a chrooted environment not as root!

Are you going to release the source? If not, it's a lot less interesting.

From the website:

"...the source will be released when it becomes more complete and stable."

[Dan Christensen]

djw <dw****@vcd.hp. com> writes:

Paul Rubin wrote:

Stelios Xanthakis <sx****@ceid.up atras.gr> writes:

- The demo is an x86/linux binary only. You shouldn't trust binaries,
run it in a chrooted environment not as root!

Are you going to release the source? If not, it's a lot less interesting.

From the website:

"...the source will be released when it becomes more complete and stable."

If he releases the source now, it'll probably become more complete and
stable sooner...

Remember, release early, release often!

Dan

[Stelios Xanthakis]

Kay Schluehr wrote:

could You tell us a bit more about Your motivation to create an
alternative C-Python interpreter? There is AFAIK no such ambitious
project that has ever survived. The last one I remember died shortly
after it was born:

The motivation is that I just needed some bytecode engine. I deciced
to go with python bytecode, because well, IMO it's the best!
Eventually it turned out what it is.

I'm afraid this may end up dead before unborn too.
So it depends what people want. If nobody cares, I just learned python
the hard way and the project does to the abandonware cemetary.
Stelios

[Stelios Xanthakis]

be************@ lycos.com wrote:

This project is probably a LOT of work; maybe people can tell us about
such efforts *before* doing so much work, so we can discuss it, and
avoid wasting time.

It is a lot of work indeed.
Usually, when people announce "we shall create X", it doesn't happen.
And you don't know if you can do it at all *before*.

Maybe you can explain us why it is so fast, and/or maybe you can work
with the other developers to improve the speed of the normal CPython,
this can require equal or less work for you, and it can produce more
long-lasting results/consequences for your work.

The reason is that it's built from the scratch.
Guido would disagree with that, see py-dev thread:

http://www.mail-archive.com/py******.../msg01225.html
There *are* alternative ways to do some things in the vm and Joel
is simply wrong:)
Could this be .... Python 3000!!!? :)
Stelios