Prothon Prototypes vs Python Classes

[David MacQuigg]

Playing with Prothon today, I am fascinated by the idea of eliminating
classes in Python. I'm trying to figure out what fundamental benefit
there is to having classes. Is all this complexity unecessary?

Here is an example of a Python class with all three types of methods
(instance, static, and class methods).

# Example from Ch.23, p.381-2 of Learning Python, 2nd ed.

class Multi:
numInstances = 0
def __init__(self):
Multi.numInstan ces += 1
def printNumInstanc es():
print "Number of Instances:", Multi.numInstan ces
printNumInstanc es = staticmethod(pr intNumInstances )
def cmeth(cls, x):
print cls, x
cmeth = classmethod(cme th)

a = Multi(); b = Multi(); c = Multi()

Multi.printNumI nstances()
a.printNumInsta nces()

Multi.cmeth(5)
b.cmeth(6)
Here is the translation to Prothon.

Multi = Object()
with Multi:
.numInstances = 0
def .__init__(): # instance method
Multi.numInstan ces += 1
def .printNumInstan ces(): # static method
print "Number of Instances:", Multi.numInstan ces
def .cmeth(x): # class method
print Multi, x

a = Multi(); b = Multi(); c = Multi()

Multi.printNumI nstances()
a.printNumInsta nces()

Multi.cmeth(5)
b.cmeth(6)
Note the elimination of 'self' in these methods. This is not just a
syntactic shortcut (substiting '.' for 'self') By eliminating this
explicit passing of the self object, Prothon makes all method forms
the same and eliminates a lot of complexity. It's beginning to look
like the complexity of Python classes is unecessary.

My question for the Python experts is -- What user benefit are we
missing if we eliminate classes?

-- Dave

[Aahz]

In article <AHF9c.49048$cx 5.33872@fed1rea d04>,
Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> wrote:

I didn't know I was going the opposite direction from Python. I guess I'll
have to change that.

I guess I didn't make it clear that no design decisions were frozen in the
language.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncra ft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet" --Darkhawk

[Charles Hixson]

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Michael wrote:

| They're planning to remove tab indention support in 3.0? I for one
| would be pissed off at such a change. I don't mind people using
| spaces if they like but I see no reason I shouldn't be able to use
| tabs if I like. I can't see how it should make any difference to
| Python which you use so why not allow for personal preference?
|
|> I'll just mention that there are ***very good***, that is
|> ***extremely good*** reasons why the Python standard is to use
|> spaces for indentation, and why the option of using tabs will be
|> removed in 3.0.
|>
They can't possibly be good enough (for my needs). That said, where
can I check this. I don't want to make important decisions on
incomplete information.

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[Mark Hahn]

A2. People that bitch about top-posting.

"Aahz" <aa**@pythoncra ft.com> wrote in message
news:c4******** **@panix2.panix .com...

In article <AHF9c.49048$cx 5.33872@fed1rea d04>,
Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> wrote:

I didn't know I was going the opposite direction from Python. I guess I'llhave to change that.

I guess I didn't make it clear that no design decisions were frozen in thelanguage.
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncra ft.com) <*>

http://www.pythoncraft.com/
"usenet imitates usenet" --Darkhawk

[Mark Hahn]

> but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a given file.

Maybe that the is most sensible solution I've heard yet.
"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de )" <ie*******@snea kemail.com> wrote in
message news:40******** ******@sneakema il.com...

Mark Hahn wrote:

> Prothon has announced that we are caving in and going to spaces instead of > tabs, even though both of the Prothon authors abhor spaces.

You don't have to choose between them if you don't
want to. Disallowing *mixed* tabs and spaces is sensible,
but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a
given file.

--
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg

[Michael]

but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a given file.

Maybe that the is most sensible solution I've heard yet.

That'd seem agreeable to me. Especially if how strict the rule was could
be set at run time as a Python argument. So you could either have mixed
spaces and tabs refuse to run, give an error, or be ignored and run (if
possible) as we might currently expect.

[Michael]

but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a given file.

Maybe that the is most sensible solution I've heard yet.

That'd seem agreeable to me. Especially if how strict the rule was could
be set at run time as a Python argument. So you could either have mixed
spaces and tabs refuse to run, give an error, or be ignored and run (if
possible) as we might currently expect.

[John Roth]

"Mark Hahn" <ma**@prothon.o rg> wrote in message
news:9C8ac.6830 3$cx5.4075@fed1 read04...

but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a given file.
Maybe that the is most sensible solution I've heard yet.

That mostly works. In fact, the original suggestion to use
tabs followed by spaces *only* for alignining continuations
also works: the most toxic case is the one where someone
has their indentation set to 4, and the editor blithely compresses
runs of 8 spaces to one tab. Then it goes to someone
else whose editor is set up for four character tabs, and
the indentation gets messed up.

John Roth

PS - I may have gotten several private e-mails at the address
on these postings. Please don't - the address that's availible
on Usenet is virus checked, spam checked and then deleted
without being read.

JR.



"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de )" <ie*******@snea kemail.com> wrote in
message news:40******** ******@sneakema il.com...

Mark Hahn wrote:

> Prothon has announced that we are caving in and going to spaces

instead

of > tabs, even though both of the Prothon authors abhor spaces.

You don't have to choose between them if you don't
want to. Disallowing *mixed* tabs and spaces is sensible,
but you could allow either all-tabs or all-spaces in a
given file.

--
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg

[Gerrit]

John Roth wrote:

As far as rendering programs, the most obvious
culprit is OE, which for all of its defects and security
problems, is still one of the most used mail and newsgroup
clients out there.

<pre>
T h e r e i s a s o l u t i o n ; - )
</pre>

Gerrit.

--
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 30/03 13:55 UTC:
15.0°C wind 5.8 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
--
here will soon be Gerrit Holl's very own signature

[Gerrit]

Mark Hahn wrote:

A2. People that bitch about top-posting.

Mark - I really find it a bit difficult to read your postings. I keep
scrolling to below to see whether there is still more to come - because you
do sometimes quote others and then answer below. When I see quoting in a
message, I automatically assume there's more to come, and I am not the
only one. I think it is the wrong answer to say that people shouldn't
bitch about top-posting - it _does_ annoy people (including me and Aahz).
There are conventions on usenet (and mailing lists), and they are there
with reason. I would like to kindly ask you to try to do more
'bottom-posting'. It makes your postings easier and prettier to read.

Really, it does - please try it...

yours,
Gerrit.

--
Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 30/03 13:55 UTC:
15.0°C wind 5.8 m/s E (57 m above NAP)
--
here will soon be Gerrit Holl's very own signature

[Terry Reedy]

The irony of this idiocy is that is shows precisely why top-posting is bad.

"Mark Hahn" <ma**@prothon.o rg> wrote in message
news:Sz8ac.6827 2$cx5.62681@fed 1read04...

A2. People that bitch about top-posting.

"Aahz" <aa**@pythoncra ft.com> wrote in message
news:c4******** **@panix2.panix .com...

In article <AHF9c.49048$cx 5.33872@fed1rea d04>,
Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> wrote:

I didn't know I was going the opposite direction from Python. I guess I'llhave to change that.

I guess I didn't make it clear that no design decisions were frozen in thelanguage.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncra ft.com) <*>

http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"usenet imitates usenet" --Darkhawk

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list