wxPython worries

[James Goldwater]

I'm starting a new hopfully-commercial project soon, and I face a
dilemma about whether Python with wxPython would be appropriate.

The project has 3 main areas:

a) manipulation of lists and trees, using..
b) a hopefully dead-sexy gui, all in order to...
c) eventually pump out certain bits of the datastructure over the
network in semi-realtime (< 10ms accuracy or so).

The target is Win32 for now (98 - XP). Now, if it were up to me, I'd use
Delphi - it's what I know best. But I'm working with a less experienced
developer with whom I have no languages in common. He's keen to get
started on C#, I've toyed with C# and though it looks easy, I don't see
any major gains over what I already know.

I've read a lot about python and done some mini-stuff in it, and been
impressed with it's ease and conciseness. What worries me is wxPython:
looking at the demo code, it's quite verbose and 'bitty'. I'm also
unclear as to how easy custom controls are to build.

Am I just being confused by my newbie-ness, or are my initial concerns
justified? What's anybody else's experiences with gui programming in
wxPython like vs a RAD like Delphi or .NET?

Thanks,

James.

[Guyon Morée]

I've got the same worries, but I'm still not really convinced...
boa-constructor is nice... but not there yet
"James Goldwater" <ja***@eccehomo .co.uk> wrote in message
news:ma******** *************** *************** @python.org...

I'm starting a new hopfully-commercial project soon, and I face a
dilemma about whether Python with wxPython would be appropriate.

The project has 3 main areas:

a) manipulation of lists and trees, using..
b) a hopefully dead-sexy gui, all in order to...
c) eventually pump out certain bits of the datastructure over the
network in semi-realtime (< 10ms accuracy or so).

The target is Win32 for now (98 - XP). Now, if it were up to me, I'd use
Delphi - it's what I know best. But I'm working with a less experienced
developer with whom I have no languages in common. He's keen to get
started on C#, I've toyed with C# and though it looks easy, I don't see
any major gains over what I already know.

I've read a lot about python and done some mini-stuff in it, and been
impressed with it's ease and conciseness. What worries me is wxPython:
looking at the demo code, it's quite verbose and 'bitty'. I'm also
unclear as to how easy custom controls are to build.

Am I just being confused by my newbie-ness, or are my initial concerns
justified? What's anybody else's experiences with gui programming in
wxPython like vs a RAD like Delphi or .NET?

Thanks,

James.

[Lars Heuer]

Hello again,

Forgot to mention SPE (uses the mentioned wxGlade):
http://spe.pycs.net/

Maybe this tool is more "IDE"-like. ;)

Regards,
Lars

[Lars Heuer]

Hello Guyon,

I've got the same worries, but I'm still not really convinced...
boa-constructor is nice... but not there yet

There's another free tool:

wxGlade
http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/

Commercial tools:
wxDesigner:
http://www.roebling.de/

DialogBlocks:
http://www.anthemion.co.uk/dialogblocks/

Maybe some of these tools fit your needs. I've no deep experience with
them all. :)

HTH,
Lars

[Joe Francia]

James Goldwater wrote:

I'm starting a new hopfully-commercial project soon, and I face a
dilemma about whether Python with wxPython would be appropriate.

The project has 3 main areas:

a) manipulation of lists and trees, using..
b) a hopefully dead-sexy gui, all in order to...
c) eventually pump out certain bits of the datastructure over the
network in semi-realtime (< 10ms accuracy or so).

The target is Win32 for now (98 - XP). Now, if it were up to me, I'd use
Delphi - it's what I know best. But I'm working with a less experienced
developer with whom I have no languages in common. He's keen to get
started on C#, I've toyed with C# and though it looks easy, I don't see
any major gains over what I already know.

I've read a lot about python and done some mini-stuff in it, and been
impressed with it's ease and conciseness. What worries me is wxPython:
looking at the demo code, it's quite verbose and 'bitty'. I'm also
unclear as to how easy custom controls are to build.

Am I just being confused by my newbie-ness, or are my initial concerns
justified? What's anybody else's experiences with gui programming in
wxPython like vs a RAD like Delphi or .NET?

Thanks,

James.

I share your concerns with wxPython - it's a good, powerful toolkit, but
it lacks consistent and clear documentation, and a decent screen painter
(wxGlade probably is the most complete).

If you have the budget (USD 399 per developer), you may want look at
BlackAdder from The Kompany. It uses the PyQt bindings for the Qt
toolkit, which I find to be a bit better than wxPython/wxWindows, a bit
more polished and consistent. The package includes the BlackAdder
editor, the QtDesigner, PyQt docs and a license to redistribute the PyQt
libraries for win32 (which is really what you're paying for - most of
this is available for free on GPL'ed systems).

Another option is to extend/embed Python with Delphi; specifically, use
Delphi for the GUI, and Python for the logic. There's some Delphi
bindings and documentation here:

http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm
http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pythonDelphiTalk.htm

[PT]

> What worries me is wxPython:

I'm also
unclear as to how easy custom controls are to build.
None of the Python GUI toolkits support making good custom controls as
well as Java and .NET do. TKinter is probably the best Python option
for that. If you are comfortable with Windows programming though,
wxPython will not be too difficult.
Am I just being confused by my newbie-ness, or are my initial concerns
justified? What's anybody else's experiences with gui programming in
wxPython like vs a RAD like Delphi or .NET?

If you want something similar to Delphi or .NET, then you would
probably like QT Designer much better than the wx options. See
BlackAdder (Win, $$) or eric3 (Linux, free):
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

If money isn't an issue though, just stick with Visual Studio and C#
and let the other guy do most of the work.

[Jarek Zgoda]

James Goldwater <ja***@eccehomo .co.uk> pisze:

The target is Win32 for now (98 - XP). Now, if it were up to me, I'd use
Delphi - it's what I know best. But I'm working with a less experienced
developer with whom I have no languages in common. He's keen to get
started on C#, I've toyed with C# and though it looks easy, I don't see
any major gains over what I already know.

I love Delphi but I would choose Python for simplicity, flexibility and
library (will not mention that it works on AS/400, the best
minicomputer(!) ever made).

But I'm rather guerilla guy and mainstream makes me sick.

(NP: The Pogues - Sally MacLennane)

--
Jarek Zgoda
Unregistered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zgoda-a-chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/

[James Goldwater]

It's not the RADdish-ness (is that a word?) - drag'n'drop, property
assignment etc - that concerns me, it's the ease of gui building - by
hand is fine (oh how I've come to 'love' Java's layout managers...)

Custom controls is the biggie then. I think I'll have a punt at building
a custom control in wxPython to see if it's even feasible. Anybody want
an arbitrary-angled triangular-wedge button? (My first custom control
in Delphi version 1, all those years back...)

PT wrote:

What worries me is wxPython:
I'm also
unclear as to how easy custom controls are to build.

None of the Python GUI toolkits support making good custom controls as
well as Java and .NET do. TKinter is probably the best Python option
for that. If you are comfortable with Windows programming though,
wxPython will not be too difficult.

Am I just being confused by my newbie-ness, or are my initial concerns
justified? What's anybody else's experiences with gui programming in
wxPython like vs a RAD like Delphi or .NET?

If you want something similar to Delphi or .NET, then you would
probably like QT Designer much better than the wx options. See
BlackAdder (Win, $$) or eric3 (Linux, free):
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/
http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

If money isn't an issue though, just stick with Visual Studio and C#
and let the other guy do most of the work.

--
James Goldwater
I.T. Consultant
020 8949 7927 (mobile [phone])

GPG Key: A2137B98 (pgp.mit.edu)

[дамјан г.]

(will not mention that it works on AS/400, the best
minicomputer(!) ever made).

Why is it the best minicomputer ever made?
I really want to know!
--
Дамјан (jabberID:da*** *@bagra.net.mk)

To boldly go where I surely don't belong.

[John J. Lee]

James Goldwater <ja***@eccehomo .co.uk> writes:

It's not the RADdish-ness (is that a word?) - drag'n'drop, property
assignment etc - that concerns me, it's the ease of gui building - by
hand is fine (oh how I've come to 'love' Java's layout managers...)
I'll make my usual comment, which is that nobody has yet contradicted
me (unusual on USENET ;-) that Qt is the most well-designed Python GUI
framework. (Qt Designer is very good, too.)

And, strangely, the PyQt commercial license is far cheaper than (C++)
Qt. $400 for former (Blackadder, from theKompany.com) , $2500-odd for
the latter!

(before somebody asks: no, you *don't* need both licenses -- only the
cheap one from theKompany, who have an agreement with trolltech)

I believe Blackadder comes with Python-specific docs for PyQt, but
they're actually completely redundant, IMHO -- it's trivial to
translate the C++ docs to Python code, using the list of exceptions
distributed with PyQt. Another BTW: their FAQ page still says
Blackadder is in beta, but I think somebody here mentioned the final
version was actually released some while back (PyQt itself has been
stable for years, of course).

Custom controls is the biggie then. I think I'll have a punt at

[...]

PyQt is certainly good at this.
John