Why Python style guide (PEP-8) says 4 space indents instead of 8 space??? 8 space indents ever ok??

[Christian Seberino]

Linux kernel style guide, Guido's C style guide and (I believe) old
K&R style recommends 8 SPACES for indent.

I finally got convinced of wisdom of 8 space indentation.

Guido also likes 8 space indentation FOR C CODE.

Why style guide (PEP-8) for Python says 4 space indents???

Is breaking rule to use 8 space indents everywhere
a REALLY bad idea??

I REALLY WANT TO DO MY OPEN SOURCE PYTHON PROJECT
WITH 8 SPACE IDENTS!!!!

Chris

[Oren Tirosh]

Some tabs are 8 space wide
But spaces don't cost any money
Other tabs leap 4 in one stride
They make my source code look funny

[Peter Hansen]

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

Peter Hansen <pe***@engcorp. com> wrote in message news:<3F******* ********@engcor p.com>...

Anyone who believes there is or will be anything new in this discussion
hasn't been reading comp.lang.pytho n or the mailing list nearly long enough.

Yeah, the eternal, never-ending war between the tabibans and the tabifans.

Careful. I think you've just attracted the attention of the Bush war machine...

:-)

-Peter

[Aahz]

In article <m3************ @mira.informati k.hu-berlin.de>,
Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?= <ma****@v.loewi s.de> wrote:

In non-Python-aware editors (like Usenet messages), I prefer 2-space
indentation as well. While programming larger projects, I use a
Python-aware editor, and that editor makes indentation automatically
(to four spaces), so it is just as easy to type.

Get a better newsreader. ;-) (My newsreader lets me pick any editor I
want.)
--
Aahz (aa**@pythoncra ft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan

[JanC]

aa**@pythoncraf t.com (Aahz) schreef:

Get a better newsreader. ;-) (My newsreader lets me pick any editor I
want.)

And Martin uses an editor as his newsreader... :-p

--
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9

[Michael Hudson]

Peter Hansen <pe***@engcorp. com> writes:

Hung Jung Lu wrote:

Peter Hansen <pe***@engcorp. com> wrote in message news:<3F******* ********@engcor p.com>...

Anyone who believes there is or will be anything new in this discussion
hasn't been reading comp.lang.pytho n or the mailing list nearly long enough.

Yeah, the eternal, never-ending war between the tabibans and the tabifans.

Careful. I think you've just attracted the attention of the Bush war machine...

We have always been at war with FourSpaceTabani a!

Cheers,
mwh

--
"Also, does the simple algorithm you used in Cyclops have a name?"
"Not officially, but it answers to "hey, dumb-ass!"
-- Neil Schemenauer and Tim Peters, 23 Feb 2001

[Stephen Horne]

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:16:15 -0700, Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.co m>
wrote:

Christian Seberino wrote:

I REALLY WANT TO DO MY OPEN SOURCE PYTHON PROJECT
WITH 8 SPACE IDENTS!!!!

You don't really think a style guide is going to stop you from doing
that, do you?

Exactly.

My advice is basically do what suits you. Just do it consistently.

Personally, I prefer two space indents. I'm just too lazy to type any
more if I can avoid it. But when editing existing code, in any
language, I just go with what's already there - as long as there is
some consistent indentation rule evident, anyway.
Are there any tools which can intelligently redo the indentation in a
Python source file? Preferably respecting other formatting conventions
where practical, though of course I accept that no program could
replace a programmer with an eye for readability in this respect.
--
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk

[Dave Kuhlman]

Stephen Horne wrote:

[snip]

Are there any tools which can intelligently redo the indentation
in a Python source file? Preferably respecting other formatting
conventions where practical, though of course I accept that no
program could replace a programmer with an eye for readability in
this respect.

If you are on Linux/UNIX or have access to the cygwin tools on MS
Windows, then try:

unexpand -4 orig.py > tmp.py
expand -2 tmp.py > dest.py

to convert from 4-space indents to 2-space indents, and

unexpand -2 orig.py > tmp.py
expand -4 tmp.py > dest.py

to convert from 2-space indents to 4-space indents.

But, it does seem like a lot of trouble to go through just so that
people will look at your code and say "Eewh! Why didn't s/he read
the style guide?" Or maybe they will smirk and say, "I'll bet s/he
uses an editor in which the Tab key doesn't work, ... something
like Notepad on MS Windows. I pity the fool."

Also, if you have the Python source distribution, look at
Tools/scripts/untabify.py. Also, in the string module (in the
standard library) and the string data type, look at the
expandtabs() method.

Except, I don't know what these do with tabs in quoted strings.
The default behavior of unexpand is to convert only
characters at the beginning of each line. With expand, use the -i
option to convert only initial tabs.

Next, ask yourself the following questions: Why is there no
Tools/scripts/tabify.py? And, why is there no string.unexpand tabs()
method? Could there be a conspiracy to take away your right to
use tabs?

Dave

--
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dk******@rexx.c om

[Erik Max Francis]

Dave Kuhlman wrote:

If you are on Linux/UNIX or have access to the cygwin tools on MS
Windows, then try:

unexpand -4 orig.py > tmp.py
expand -2 tmp.py > dest.py

to convert from 4-space indents to 2-space indents, and

unexpand -2 orig.py > tmp.py
expand -4 tmp.py > dest.py

to convert from 2-space indents to 4-space indents.

Blasphemy! Use a pipe and avoid the need for the temporary file
altogether:

unexpand -4 orig.py | expand -2 > dest.py

etc.

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
__ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/ \ To endure what is unendurable is true endurance.
\__/ (a Japanese proverb)

[Steve Williams]

Stephen Horne wrote:
[snip]

Are there any tools which can intelligently redo the indentation in a
Python source file? Preferably respecting other formatting conventions
where practical, though of course I accept that no program could
replace a programmer with an eye for readability in this respect.

..../Python.../Tools/Scripts/reindent.py

[Harry George]

Stephen Horne <st***@ninereed s.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:16:15 -0700, Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.co m>
wrote:

Christian Seberino wrote:

I REALLY WANT TO DO MY OPEN SOURCE PYTHON PROJECT
WITH 8 SPACE IDENTS!!!!
You don't really think a style guide is going to stop you from doing
that, do you?

Exactly.

My advice is basically do what suits you. Just do it consistently.

Personally, I prefer two space indents. I'm just too lazy to type any
more if I can avoid it. But when editing existing code, in any
language, I just go with what's already there - as long as there is
some consistent indentation rule evident, anyway.

If you never work with others, never edit code from others, and never
offer code to the OSS world, then I suppose you can do your own indent
rules. But for those of us in the connected world (and esp. those
doing XP), playing by the 4-char rule is crucial.

So the question is: How can you do the correct indents everytime,
without having to manually count them out? You should be using an
editor which understands python indents (e.g., emacs with
python-model.el). Even vi and nedit can be set up to understand
4-char indents.


Are there any tools which can intelligently redo the indentation in a
Python source file? Preferably respecting other formatting conventions
where practical, though of course I accept that no program could
replace a programmer with an eye for readability in this respect.


--
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk

--
ha************@ boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: [phone]