Python/Wx dot net

[HankC]

Hello:

Sorry if I'm asking obvious questions but I'm still a little on the
fringe of the python scene...

I'm slowly migrating from Delphi/Kylix to Python/Wx to facilitate
cross-platform development. Python in particular is a really good fit
for the type of development I do. I'm also a little shakey on the
ramifications of dot net but it seems conceivable that at some point
any [former]Win32 apps will need to run as managed code. Looking a
little long term...

What's the status of python as a dot net language?

What's the status of Wx as a dot net gui toolkit?

What's the probability of something like BOA being able to target dot
net?

I'm sure there are some links somewhere but the stupidity of the name
(re: .net) is making my searches ineffective. Any links/comments in
general appreciated.

TIA!

[Lawrence Oluyede]

ha***@nospam.co m (HankC) writes:

What's the status of python as a dot net language?

Python as a language for the CLR is not on the way.
There was a project by Mark Hammond but I think is quite
dead, but if you want to try is there:
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/dotnet/

There is another project (Python bindings for .NET)
that you can find there:
http://www.zope.org/Members/Brian/PythonNet

--
Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
http://loluyede.blogspot.com
rh****@NOSPAMmy self.com

[Peter Hansen]

HankC wrote:

I'm slowly migrating from Delphi/Kylix to Python/Wx to facilitate
cross-platform development. Python in particular is a really good fit
for the type of development I do. I'm also a little shakey on the
ramifications of dot net but it seems conceivable that at some point
any [former]Win32 apps will need to run as managed code. Looking a
little long term...

What's the status of python as a dot net language?

What's the status of Wx as a dot net gui toolkit?

What's the probability of something like BOA being able to target dot
net?

Here's the question I would ask: what's the future of dot net?

Python has outlasted at least two major new Microsoft initiatives,
I believe, and seems likely to outlive .NET as well.

I hvae more faith in the Python community to provide useful,
cross-platform, robust, and fun environments than I do in Microsoft
to do provide any single one of those.

My suggestion: learn to use Python well. Use it to solve problems.
If at some point it supports .NET, you'll be well positioned to
write to that API, but you'll also still be able to write good
programs long after .NET is yet another footnote in history.

-Peter

[Mike C. Fletcher]

Peter Hansen wrote:
....

Here's the question I would ask: what's the future of dot net?

Shane's web-site might be a decent link here to get the view of a small
software development company who'd considered moving to .NET and decided
to skip it:

http://www.skippingdot.net/

Of course, there's a bias there (as everywhere). Still, .NET does
appear to be falling by the wayside as a marketing strategy, and
marketing is 90% of the .NET story.

There are lots of things that can be salvaged from the train-wreck
(there were lots of good ideas; introspectable bundles, standards for
cross-language module interface definitions, built-in networking
libraries), but jumping on the train just before it hits the stantion to
try to pull them out seems less than useful.

Spending precious resources binding wx to .NET, or Python, for that
matter, seems rather a waste. Sure, if there's a particular problem you
run into where you need it, devote the time, but without that, it
doesn't seem a particularly good engine to pull the Python train.

$0.02CDN,
Mike

_______________ _______________ _________
Mike C. Fletcher
Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/

[HankC]

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:39:02 -0400, Peter Hansen <pe***@engcorp. com>
wrote:

Here's the question I would ask: what's the future of dot net?

Well, this is the question, isn't it. IMO, I think programming in
XXX.NET will be the *norm* (for Windows programming) within 1-2 years.
Look at the development tools MS is putting out. Look at the focus of
Borland now. When a 64bit version of Windows is available it will be
even more popular.

I think it's conceivable that MS will disallow native code at some
point. When, I don't know but I'd guess in 3-5 years.
Python has outlasted at least two major new Microsoft initiatives,
I believe, and seems likely to outlive .NET as well.

I agree.
I hvae more faith in the Python community to provide useful,
cross-platform, robust, and fun environments than I do in Microsoft
to do provide any single one of those.

I agree.
My suggestion: learn to use Python well. Use it to solve problems.
If at some point it supports .NET, you'll be well positioned to
write to that API, but you'll also still be able to write good
programs long after .NET is yet another footnote in history.

My feeling is that if Python doesn't support .net, and if non-.net
apps won't run under windows at some point, I'll be looking for
another language. If a Python/Wx solution will work indefinately I'd
be a lot happier.

Thanks for your comments!
-Peter

[HankC]

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:23:31 -0400, "Mike C. Fletcher"
<mc******@roger s.com> wrote:

Of course, there's a bias there (as everywhere). Still, .NET does
appear to be falling by the wayside as a marketing strategy, and
marketing is 90% of the .NET story.

I remember the .net hype of 1-2 years ago and agree that that
marketing strategy was a flop. Things are entirely different now,
.net is certainly gaining mindshare for a lot of developers.

[HankC]

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:08:06 +0200, Lawrence Oluyede <ra***@dot.co m>
wrote:

http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/dotnet/

http://www.zope.org/Members/Brian/PythonNet

Thanks!

[JanC]

ha***@nospam.co m (HankC) schreef:

I think it's conceivable that MS will disallow native code at some
point. When, I don't know but I'd guess in 3-5 years.

They can't. Other operating systems (e.g. Linux & MacOSX) would run
circles around Windows when playing the latest games and CPU-intensive
applications (like 3D-rendering) if they did...

--
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9

[HankC]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 02:10:05 GMT, JanC <us*********@ja nc.invalid>
wrote:

ha***@nospam.c om (HankC) schreef:

I think it's conceivable that MS will disallow native code at some
point. When, I don't know but I'd guess in 3-5 years.

They can't. Other operating systems (e.g. Linux & MacOSX) would run
circles around Windows when playing the latest games and CPU-intensive
applications (like 3D-rendering) if they did...

From what I hear, the JIT compile causes a little delay when
initiating an app but the actual execution speed is really good. The
exception is GDI but within 3-5 years, if not a lot sooner, they will
have this fixed.

Furthermore, MS has the capability of just telling people/developers
what needs to be done. Assuming they get the crappy GDI portion of
net working fairly well, and they prohibit native execution (with I
suspect rare exceptions) do you really think game developers are
suddenly going to abandon Windows for Linux?

[Carl Waldbieser]

To me, it seems like it would be a very extreme position for Microsoft to
disallow native code on their future operating systems. I find myself
asking, "what would be the point?" If someone wanted to write a program
that they couldn't write using managed code, they couldn't use Windows. Why
would you want to shut out a potential customer? Also, not all the tools
Microsoft is putting out focus entirely on managed code. The Visual C++
tools seem (at least to me) to have been designed with an emphasis on
integrating native and managed code for mixed projects.

I am not worried if there is not a version of python that runs under .NET,
as long as there is some version of Python I can use on Windows. It seems
to me that when a need exists for different tools to communicate with each
other, someone usually comes up with a way so they can. Mark Hammond's
excellent COM extensions for Python didn't attempt to re-write Python as a
complete set of COM components-- instead, it provided a simple way for
Python to interact with COM components and visa versa.

Techniques already exist for Python and .NET apps to talk to each other.
I'm sure as the technology matures, better and simpler techniques will
emerge.

Carl Waldbieser