classmethods, class variables and subclassing

[Andrew Jaffe]

Hi,

I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to
store global state information for all instances of a class. These are
set by a classmethod as in the following (in reality the setcvar method
is more complicated than this!):

class sup(object):
cvar1 = None
cvar2 = None

@classmethod
def setcvar1(cls, val):
cls.cvar1 = val

@classmethod
def setcvar2(cls, val):
cls.cvar2 = val

@classmethod
def printcvars(cls) :
print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2
I can then call setcvar on either instances of the class or the class
itself.

Now, the problem comes when I want to subclass this class. If I
override the setcvar1 method to do some new things special to this
class, and then call the sup.setcvar1() method, it all works fine:

class sub(sup):
cvar1a = None

@classmethod
def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
cls.cvar1a = vala
sup.setcvar1(va l)

@classmethod
def printcvars(cls) :
print cls.cvar1a
sup.printcvars( )

This works fine, and sets cvar and cvar2 for both classes.

However, if I *don't* override the setcvar2 method, but I call
sub.setcvar2(va l) directly, then only sub.cvar2 gets set; it is no
longer identical to sup.cvar1!

In particular,
sub.setcvar1(1, 10)
sub.setcvar2(2)
sub.printcvars( )
prints
10
1 None

i.e. sub.cvar1, sub.cvar1a, sub.cvar2= 1 10 2
but sup.cvar1, cvar2= 1 None

since sup.cvar2 has never been set, and this is what sup.printcvars( )
looks for.

This behavior is "expected", but is it desirable?

For my application, at least, I think the problem really comes in the
printcvars method: is there any way to call the overridden
sup.printcvars( ) but with, effectively, cls=sub?

Thanks for reading this far!

Andrew
Andrew


This seems like a bug

Is this expected behavior, or a bug (or both -- it is expected but
probably not what is wanted!)?

[Steve Holden]

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

Hi,

I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to
store global state information for all instances of a class. These are
set by a classmethod as in the following (in reality the setcvar method
is more complicated than this!):

class sup(object):
cvar1 = None
cvar2 = None

@classmethod
def setcvar1(cls, val):
cls.cvar1 = val

@classmethod
def setcvar2(cls, val):
cls.cvar2 = val

@classmethod
def printcvars(cls) :
print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2
I can then call setcvar on either instances of the class or the class
itself.

Now, the problem comes when I want to subclass this class. If I
override the setcvar1 method to do some new things special to this
class, and then call the sup.setcvar1() method, it all works fine:

class sub(sup):
cvar1a = None

@classmethod
def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
cls.cvar1a = vala
sup.setcvar1(va l)

@classmethod
def printcvars(cls) :
print cls.cvar1a
sup.printcvars( )

This works fine, and sets cvar and cvar2 for both classes.

However, if I *don't* override the setcvar2 method, but I call
sub.setcvar2(va l) directly, then only sub.cvar2 gets set; it is no
longer identical to sup.cvar1!

In particular,
sub.setcvar1(1, 10)
sub.setcvar2(2)
sub.printcvars( )
prints
10
1 None

i.e. sub.cvar1, sub.cvar1a, sub.cvar2= 1 10 2
but sup.cvar1, cvar2= 1 None

since sup.cvar2 has never been set, and this is what sup.printcvars( )
looks for.

This behavior is "expected", but is it desirable?

For my application, at least, I think the problem really comes in the
printcvars method: is there any way to call the overridden
sup.printcvars( ) but with, effectively, cls=sub?

Thanks for reading this far!

Andrew
Andrew


This seems like a bug

Is this expected behavior, or a bug (or both -- it is expected but
probably not what is wanted!)?

You are experiencing this problem because you are using hard-wired class
names. Try using (for example) self.__class__. That way, even if your
method is inheroted by a subclass it will use the class of the object it
finds itself a method of. No need to use classmethods.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

[Andrew Jaffe]

> Andrew Jaffe wrote:

Hi,

I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to
store global state information for all instances of a class. These are
set by a classmethod as in the following

class sup(object):
cvar1 = None
cvar2 = None

@classmethod
def setcvar1(cls, val):
cls.cvar1 = val

@classmethod
def setcvar2(cls, val):
cls.cvar2 = val

@classmethod
def printcvars(cls) :
print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2

Now, the problem comes when I want to subclass this class. If I
override the setcvar1 method to do some new things special to this
class, and then call the sup.setcvar1() method, it all works fine:

class sub(sup):
cvar1a = None

@classmethod
def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
cls.cvar1a = vala
sup.setcvar1(va l)

@classmethod
def printcvars(cls) :
print cls.cvar1a
sup.printcvars( )

This works fine, and sets cvar and cvar2 for both classes.

However, if I *don't* override the setcvar2 method, but I call
sub.setcvar2(va l) directly, then only sub.cvar2 gets set; it is no
longer identical to sup.cvar1!

In particular,
sub.setcvar1(1, 10)
sub.setcvar2(2)
sub.printcvars( )
prints
10
1 None

i.e. sub.cvar1, sub.cvar1a, sub.cvar2= 1 10 2
but sup.cvar1, cvar2= 1 None

This behavior is "expected", but is it desirable?

You are experiencing this problem because you are using hard-wired class
names. Try using (for example) self.__class__. That way, even if your
method is inheroted by a subclass it will use the class of the object it
finds itself a method of. No need to use classmethods.

The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the
class itself, before I've made any instances.

A

[Steve Holden]

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

Hi,

I have a class with various class-level variables which are used to
store global state information for all instances of a class. These are
set by a classmethod as in the following

class sup(object):
cvar1 = None
cvar2 = None

@classmethod
def setcvar1(cls, val):
cls.cvar1 = val

@classmethod
def setcvar2(cls, val):
cls.cvar2 = val

@classmethod
def printcvars(cls) :
print cls.cvar1, cls.cvar2

Now, the problem comes when I want to subclass this class. If I
override the setcvar1 method to do some new things special to this
class, and then call the sup.setcvar1() method, it all works fine:

class sub(sup):
cvar1a = None

@classmethod
def setcvar1(cls, val, vala):
cls.cvar1a = vala
sup.setcvar1(va l)

@classmethod
def printcvars(cls) :
print cls.cvar1a
sup.printcvars( )

This works fine, and sets cvar and cvar2 for both classes.

However, if I *don't* override the setcvar2 method, but I call
sub.setcvar2 (val) directly, then only sub.cvar2 gets set; it is no
longer identical to sup.cvar1!

In particular,
sub.setcvar1(1, 10)
sub.setcvar2(2)
sub.printcvars( )
prints
10
1 None

i.e. sub.cvar1, sub.cvar1a, sub.cvar2= 1 10 2
but sup.cvar1, cvar2= 1 None

This behavior is "expected", but is it desirable?

You are experiencing this problem because you are using hard-wired class
names. Try using (for example) self.__class__. That way, even if your
method is inheroted by a subclass it will use the class of the object it
finds itself a method of. No need to use classmethods.

The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the
class itself, before I've made any instances.

I see. I think. So what you are saying is that when you call
sup.printcvars( ) from inside a sub method you want it to see the
namespace of the sub class not the sup?

Since you have set all this up carefully you must have a use case, but
it seems a little contorted (to me). Basically you appear to want the
classes to behave statically the way that instances do dynamically?

Not sure I can help you here.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

[Steve Holden]

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

[...]
The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the
class itself, before I've made any instances.

Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

[Andrew Jaffe]

Steve Holden wrote:

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the
class itself, before I've made any instances.

Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...

Steve,

Yep, that would work! Thanks.

But it does seem like a bit of a kludge: classmethods seems to be almost
exactly what you 'ought' to use here (i.e., I really do want to apply
these methods to the class as an object in its own right).

A

[Steve Holden]

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

Steve Holden wrote:

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the
class itself, before I've made any instances.

Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...

Steve,

Yep, that would work! Thanks.

But it does seem like a bit of a kludge: classmethods seems to be almost
exactly what you 'ought' to use here (i.e., I really do want to apply
these methods to the class as an object in its own right).

What's the use case?

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

[Andrew Jaffe]

Steve Holden wrote:

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

Steve Holden wrote:

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the
class itself, before I've made any instances.

Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...

Yep, that would work! Thanks.

But it does seem like a bit of a kludge: classmethods seems to be
almost exactly what you 'ought' to use here (i.e., I really do want to
apply these methods to the class as an object in its own right).

What's the use case?

Fair question. I hope the following isn't too technical.

I have a class which describes the model for fitting some data,
encapsulating among other things a bunch of parameters whose values I'd
like to determine for a given dataset. The base class is a simple model,
the derived class a slightly more complicated one with an extra parameter.

At present, I instantiate the class with a particular set of values for
the parameters.

One of the methods in this class is called 'prior', which returns the
prior probability for the instance's paramters.

However, it turns out there are some 'meta-parameters' which don't
change between instances, in particular the allowed limits on the
parameters, beyond which the prior should return 0. Currently these are
stored as class variables -- so both the base and derived class want to
be able to act as if these class variables are 'native' to their own
class -- since in fact the base/derived relationship is in this case
actually something of an implementation detail. (Currently I've solved
the problem by explicitly using the base class methods for setting the
class variables.)

Does this make sense?

Andrew

[Steve Holden]

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

Steve Holden wrote:

Andrew Jaffe wrote:

Steve Holden wrote:

Andrew Jaffe wrote:
>The problem is that I actually do want to call these methods on the
>class itself, before I've made any instances.
>

Except you could use staticmethods with an explicit class argument ...

Yep, that would work! Thanks.

But it does seem like a bit of a kludge: classmethods seems to be
almost exactly what you 'ought' to use here (i.e., I really do want to
apply these methods to the class as an object in its own right).

What's the use case?

Fair question. I hope the following isn't too technical.

I have a class which describes the model for fitting some data,
encapsulating among other things a bunch of parameters whose values I'd
like to determine for a given dataset. The base class is a simple model,
the derived class a slightly more complicated one with an extra parameter.

At present, I instantiate the class with a particular set of values for
the parameters.

One of the methods in this class is called 'prior', which returns the
prior probability for the instance's paramters.

However, it turns out there are some 'meta-parameters' which don't
change between instances, in particular the allowed limits on the
parameters, beyond which the prior should return 0. Currently these are
stored as class variables -- so both the base and derived class want to
be able to act as if these class variables are 'native' to their own
class -- since in fact the base/derived relationship is in this case
actually something of an implementation detail. (Currently I've solved
the problem by explicitly using the base class methods for setting the
class variables.)

Does this make sense?

I think so. It's not normal adive, but it sounds like a metaclass might
be what you need here.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

[Steve Holden]

Steve Holden wrote:
[...]

I think so. It's not normal adive, but it sounds like a metaclass might
be what you need here.

^adive^advice^

spell-me-own-name-wrong-next-ly y'rs - evest
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/