c-sharp

[windandwaves]

Hi Folk

I am a PHP programmer, but I like to learn c-sharp as it seems to be
in hot demand around here. My questions are:

- how does c-sharp relate to PHP
- do you like c-sharp and its cousins
- are there better things to do then c-sharp?

Thanks a million

Nicolaas

[KDawg44]

On Mar 7, 4:40 pm, "windandwaves" <[e-mail]:

Hi Folk

I am a PHP programmer, but I like to learn c-sharp as it seems to be
in hot demand around here. My questions are:

- how does c-sharp relate to PHP
- do you like c-sharp and its cousins
- are there better things to do then c-sharp?

Thanks a million

Nicolaas

c# is very similar to Java, moreso than it is to PHP

[tomb]

windandwaves wrote:

Hi Folk

I am a PHP programmer, but I like to learn c-sharp as it seems to be
in hot demand around here. My questions are:

- how does c-sharp relate to PHP
- do you like c-sharp and its cousins
- are there better things to do then c-sharp?

Thanks a million

>Nicolaas

C# runs on Windows servers, php is superior for small web applications,
java is uperior for large web applications. Many things are better than
c#. I am currently a windows programmer, trying to get away from it
because so many other things are so much better.

T

[Tim Roberts]

tomb <to**@technetcenter.comwrote:

>
windandwaves wrote:

>>
I am a PHP programmer, but I like to learn c-sharp as it seems to be
in hot demand around here. My questions are:

- how does c-sharp relate to PHP

Not at all, except that it's possible to write web applications in both. C#
is also commonly used to write non-web applications, whereas PHP is not
(commonly, that is).

>- do you like c-sharp and its cousins

Our opinions are not really very relevant. The big advantage of C# and
Visual Basic is the .NET runtime, which provides a HUGE library of canned
functionality.

>- are there better things to do then c-sharp?

That question cannot be answered. If you've read any job postings
recently, then it should be clear that C# is a very good thing to have on
your resume.

>C# runs on Windows servers,

Not true. Mono provides a very good C# run-time on Linux.

>php is superior for small web applications,

....in your opinion.

>java is uperior for large web applications.

....in your opinion. I would disagree.

>Many things are better than c#. I am currently a windows programmer, trying to get away from it
because so many other things are so much better.

Regardless of what you think about it, I would point out that many people
have gone bankrupt by betting against Microsoft.
--
Tim Roberts, ti**@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Tim Roberts wrote:

tomb <to**@technetcenter.comwrote:

>windandwaves wrote:

>>I am a PHP programmer, but I like to learn c-sharp as it seems to be
in hot demand around here. My questions are:

- how does c-sharp relate to PHP

Not at all, except that it's possible to write web applications in both. C#
is also commonly used to write non-web applications, whereas PHP is not
(commonly, that is).

Actually, I've seen *a lot* of non-web scripts written in PHP. Written
a few hundred myself, also.

>>- do you like c-sharp and its cousins

Our opinions are not really very relevant. The big advantage of C# and
Visual Basic is the .NET runtime, which provides a HUGE library of canned
functionality.

>>- are there better things to do then c-sharp?

That question cannot be answered. If you've read any job postings
recently, then it should be clear that C# is a very good thing to have on
your resume.

Depends on the job postings you watch. For instance, here in DC there
are very few openings for C# programmers listed. A lot for C/C++, though.

>C# runs on Windows servers,

Not true. Mono provides a very good C# run-time on Linux.

It's an emulation - and always behind the times. It takes a while for
Mono to catch up with any changes in the language, for instance.

>php is superior for small web applications,

...in your opinion.

And mine and a few hundred others here on this newsgroup. Versus one
opinion to the contrary - yours.

>java is uperior for large web applications.

...in your opinion. I would disagree.

Sorry, I agree here, also. Java is much superior for large web
applications. And if you knew Java you would agree. But obviously
you've never done any serious apps in Java.

>Many things are better than c#. I am currently a windows programmer, trying to get away from it
because so many other things are so much better.

Regardless of what you think about it, I would point out that many people
have gone bankrupt by betting against Microsoft.

And I would point out many more people have gotten rich programming in
non-Microsoft-centric languages, also.

There are a lot more C, C++, Java and even PHP programmers in the world
than there are C# programmers. Maybe the "demand" you see is because no
one programs in it - and only those with the same blind view as you ask
for it. Those of us who have been programming for a long time in
several languages know better.

And for the record - I've been programming for around 40 years now.
I've written code in more languages than you would ever dream -
including C# - and many you've never heard of.

And yes, C# is a great language - for Microsoft bigots and idiots who
don't know any better. Which are you?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

[Rik]

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

>>php is superior for small web applications,

...in your opinion.

And mine and a few hundred others here on this newsgroup. Versus one
opinion to the contrary - yours.

Well, we're quite biased in this group offcourse :P
PHP is quite a lot under fire for being to 'loose'. I can understand that,
it's horribly easy to make something in PHP that only seems to work
correctly but is actually flawed as hell.

--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

[Jerry Stuckle]

Rik wrote:

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

>>>php is superior for small web applications,
...in your opinion.

And mine and a few hundred others here on this newsgroup. Versus one
opinion to the contrary - yours.

Well, we're quite biased in this group offcourse :P
PHP is quite a lot under fire for being to 'loose'. I can understand
that, it's horribly easy to make something in PHP that only seems to
work correctly but is actually flawed as hell.

--Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

Rik,

The same has been said about C for around 30 years. But that hasn't
stopped a lot of code from being written in it.

Sure it's easy to make mistakes. But I don't think that's a language
problem as much as a programmer problem.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

[Rik]

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

Rik wrote:

>Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

>>>>php is superior for small web applications,
...in your opinion.
And mine and a few hundred others here on this newsgroup. Versus one
opinion to the contrary - yours.

Well, we're quite biased in this group offcourse :P
PHP is quite a lot under fire for being to 'loose'. I can understand
that, it's horribly easy to make something in PHP that only seems to
work correctly but is actually flawed as hell.

The same has been said about C for around 30 years. But that hasn't
stopped a lot of code from being written in it.

Nor should it. I do however think things might have benefited from strict
types. But that's w shole other discussion

Sure it's easy to make mistakes. But I don't think that's a language
problem as much as a programmer problem.

Indeed, bad code can be written in any language.

> --Rik Wasmus

Damn, sig-seperator not working for you? The fix for Thunderbird seems to
be in the nightly build, I trust this will be fixed in an official release
soon :-)

--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

[Rik]

Rik <lu************@hotmail.comwrote:

w shole

a whole...
Damn this new keyboard.

--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

[Jerry Stuckle]

Rik wrote:

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

>Rik wrote:

>>Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:
>php is superior for small web applications,
...in your opinion.
And mine and a few hundred others here on this newsgroup. Versus
one opinion to the contrary - yours.
Well, we're quite biased in this group offcourse :P
PHP is quite a lot under fire for being to 'loose'. I can understand
that, it's horribly easy to make something in PHP that only seems to
work correctly but is actually flawed as hell.

The same has been said about C for around 30 years. But that hasn't
stopped a lot of code from being written in it.

Nor should it. I do however think things might have benefited from
strict types. But that's w shole other discussion

Agreed - loose typing is both an advantage and a disadvantage. But you
can also overdo strict typing. Pascal comes to mind.

However, in a way I really do wish PHP had "real" data types. As it is,
it's too easy to do thinks like add a string to an integer, as so many
posts in this newsgroup indicate.

>Sure it's easy to make mistakes. But I don't think that's a language
problem as much as a programmer problem.

Indeed, bad code can be written in any language.

True. You can write bad code in any language. But some languages make
it very difficult to write good code :-). Fortunately PHP is not among
them.

>> --Rik Wasmus

Damn, sig-seperator not working for you? The fix for Thunderbird seems
to be in the nightly build, I trust this will be fixed in an official
release soon :-)

Nope - because two hyphens starting a line are not a separator.

The correct sig separator is hyphen-hyphen-space-newline alone on a
single line. That works fine here.

--Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

[Rik]

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

> Damn, sig-seperator not working for you? The fix for Thunderbird seems
to be in the nightly build, I trust this will be fixed in an official
release soon :-)

Nope - because two hyphens starting a line are not a separator.

The correct sig separator is hyphen-hyphen-space-newline alone on a
single line. That works fine here.

It's there, it's just because this combination:
- Quoted Printable
- format=flowed
- delsp=yes

let's Thunderbird (and SeaMonkey) eagerly strip away a space that should
not be stripped. Had a whole discussion about it in
alt.internet.search-engines / alt.html (the whole thread is crossposted...).

MSOE(with Quotefix)/Pan/Opera/Forte Agent/Xnews all don't seem to have
that problem :P
--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

[Jerry Stuckle]

Rik wrote:

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

>> Damn, sig-seperator not working for you? The fix for Thunderbird
seems to be in the nightly build, I trust this will be fixed in an
official release soon :-)

Nope - because two hyphens starting a line are not a separator.

The correct sig separator is hyphen-hyphen-space-newline alone on a
single line. That works fine here.

It's there, it's just because this combination:
- Quoted Printable
- format=flowed
- delsp=yes

let's Thunderbird (and SeaMonkey) eagerly strip away a space that should
not be stripped. Had a whole discussion about it in
alt.internet.search-engines / alt.html (the whole thread is crossposted..).

MSOE(with Quotefix)/Pan/Opera/Forte Agent/Xnews all don't seem to have
that problem :P

Hmmm, OK, I see what you mean. Maybe delsp is doing what it's supposed
to do?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

[Rik]

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

Rik wrote:

>Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

>>> Damn, sig-seperator not working for you? The fix for Thunderbird
seems to be in the nightly build, I trust this will be fixed in an
official release soon :-)
Nope - because two hyphens starting a line are not a separator.

The correct sig separator is hyphen-hyphen-space-newline alone on a
single line. That works fine here.

It's there, it's just because this combination:
- Quoted Printable
- format=flowed
- delsp=yes
let's Thunderbird (and SeaMonkey) eagerly strip away a space that
should not be stripped. Had a whole discussion about it in
alt.internet.search-engines / alt.html (the whole thread is
crossposted..).
MSOE(with Quotefix)/Pan/Opera/Forte Agent/Xnews all don't seem to have
that problem :P

Hmmm, OK, I see what you mean. Maybe delsp is doing what it's supposed
to do?

<http://www.rfc-archive.org/getrfc.php?rfc=3676>
4.3. Usenet Signature Convention

There is a long-standing convention in Usenet news which also
commonly appears in Internet mail of using "-- " as the separator
line between the body and the signature of a message. When
generating a Format=Flowed message containing a Usenet-style
separator before the signature, the separator line is sent as-is.
This is a special case; an (optionally quoted or quoted and stuffed)
line consisting of DASH DASH SP is neither fixed nor flowed.

Generating agents MUST NOT end a paragraph with such a signature
line.

A receiving agent needs to test for a signature line both before the
test for a quoted line (see Section 4.5) and also after logically
counting and deleting quote marks and stuffing (see Section 4.4) from
a quoted line.

Thunderbird fails to test for a signature line however.
--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

[Jerry Stuckle]

Rik wrote:

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

>Rik wrote:

>>Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:
Damn, sig-seperator not working for you? The fix for Thunderbird
seems to be in the nightly build, I trust this will be fixed in an
official release soon :-)
>

Nope - because two hyphens starting a line are not a separator.

The correct sig separator is hyphen-hyphen-space-newline alone on a
single line. That works fine here.
It's there, it's just because this combination:
- Quoted Printable
- format=flowed
- delsp=yes
let's Thunderbird (and SeaMonkey) eagerly strip away a space that
should not be stripped. Had a whole discussion about it in
alt.internet.search-engines / alt.html (the whole thread is
crossposted..).
MSOE(with Quotefix)/Pan/Opera/Forte Agent/Xnews all don't seem to
have that problem :P

Hmmm, OK, I see what you mean. Maybe delsp is doing what it's
supposed to do?

<http://www.rfc-archive.org/getrfc.php?rfc=3676>
4.3. Usenet Signature Convention

There is a long-standing convention in Usenet news which also
commonly appears in Internet mail of using "-- " as the separator
line between the body and the signature of a message. When
generating a Format=Flowed message containing a Usenet-style
separator before the signature, the separator line is sent as-is.
This is a special case; an (optionally quoted or quoted and stuffed)
line consisting of DASH DASH SP is neither fixed nor flowed.

Generating agents MUST NOT end a paragraph with such a signature
line.

A receiving agent needs to test for a signature line both before the
test for a quoted line (see Section 4.5) and also after logically
counting and deleting quote marks and stuffing (see Section 4.4) from
a quoted line.

Thunderbird fails to test for a signature line however.
--Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying Thunderbird wasn't wrong. Just
that they misinterpreted the spec. Or, more likely, just didn't think
about the sigs problem.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

[Rik]

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying Thunderbird wasn't wrong. Just
that they misinterpreted the spec. Or, more likely, just didn't think
about the sigs problem.

I have been an Opera fan for quite some time, sometimes I get a little bit
carried away in some defences :P

--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

[Tim Roberts]

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

>

>>php is superior for small web applications,

...in your opinion.

And mine and a few hundred others here on this newsgroup. Versus one
opinion to the contrary - yours.

I never said that my opinion was to the contrary. I was merely attempting
to point out that he was stating as fact something that was, instead,
merely opinion. There is no doubt in my mind that the folks who
participate in this newsgroup would share his opinion. That's fine. It's
still an opinion.

In fact, I tend to reach for Python for small web applications.

I also don't understand why you turned hostile.

>>java is uperior for large web applications.

...in your opinion. I would disagree.

Sorry, I agree here, also.

That's fine, you're welcome to do so. That still doesn't make it fact.

>There are a lot more C, C++, Java and even PHP programmers in the world
than there are C# programmers.

Maybe, although I admit I couldn't find any real numbers in a few minutes
of web searching. C# is certainly alive and well in the corporate Intranet
world.

>Maybe the "demand" you see is because no
one programs in it - and only those with the same blind view as you ask
for it. Those of us who have been programming for a long time in
several languages know better.

"Blind view"? What are you talking about? Maybe I was asking for it by
presenting a defense of C# in a PHP newsgroup, but the fact is that the
successful programmer keeps a wide variety of tools in his toolbox. PHP
and Java belong in that toolbox, as does C#.

>And for the record - I've been programming for around 40 years now.
I've written code in more languages than you would ever dream -
including C# - and many you've never heard of.

I'm not sure why this exchange had to turn into a resume contest. I've
only been programming for 35 years, but I'll bet our lists of languages are
equally long.

>And yes, C# is a great language - for Microsoft bigots and idiots who
don't know any better. Which are you?

Apparently, a bit more open-minded than you. I don't actually use C# (as a
driver writer, my world is mostly assembler, C, and C++), but one would
have to be an idiot to pretend that it does not exist.

Anders Hejlsberg is no idiot. Many of the design concepts in C# are quite
intelligent. Perhaps its major shortcoming is that it came from Microsoft,
because the shrill, religious, anti-Microsoft rhetoric that inevitably
accompanies anything that comes from Redmond drowns out whatever good there
might be.
--
Tim Roberts, ti**@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Tim Roberts wrote:

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

>>>php is superior for small web applications,
...in your opinion.

And mine and a few hundred others here on this newsgroup. Versus one
opinion to the contrary - yours.

I never said that my opinion was to the contrary. I was merely attempting
to point out that he was stating as fact something that was, instead,
merely opinion. There is no doubt in my mind that the folks who
participate in this newsgroup would share his opinion. That's fine. It's
still an opinion.

No, you didn't actually SAY it was your opinion - but your comment
intimated it.

In fact, I tend to reach for Python for small web applications.

I also don't understand why you turned hostile.

>>>java is uperior for large web applications.
...in your opinion. I would disagree.

Sorry, I agree here, also.

That's fine, you're welcome to do so. That still doesn't make it fact.

And neither does your blather.

>There are a lot more C, C++, Java and even PHP programmers in the world
than there are C# programmers.

Maybe, although I admit I couldn't find any real numbers in a few minutes
of web searching. C# is certainly alive and well in the corporate Intranet
world.

Maybe you should spend a little more time before you open your yap like
this.

>Maybe the "demand" you see is because no
one programs in it - and only those with the same blind view as you ask
for it. Those of us who have been programming for a long time in
several languages know better.

"Blind view"? What are you talking about? Maybe I was asking for it by
presenting a defense of C# in a PHP newsgroup, but the fact is that the
successful programmer keeps a wide variety of tools in his toolbox. PHP
and Java belong in that toolbox, as does C#.

You were asking for it because you're either a microsoftie or someone
who like to foment arguments. Either way you're stoopid.

>And for the record - I've been programming for around 40 years now.
I've written code in more languages than you would ever dream -
including C# - and many you've never heard of.

I'm not sure why this exchange had to turn into a resume contest. I've
only been programming for 35 years, but I'll bet our lists of languages are
equally long.

So you claim. Your comments don't reflect anywhere near 35 years of
experience.

>And yes, C# is a great language - for Microsoft bigots and idiots who
don't know any better. Which are you?

Apparently, a bit more open-minded than you. I don't actually use C# (as a
driver writer, my world is mostly assembler, C, and C++), but one would
have to be an idiot to pretend that it does not exist.

I didn't say it doesn't exist. I said it isn't worth using. Not even
Microsoft uses it. What does that tell you?

Anders Hejlsberg is no idiot. Many of the design concepts in C# are quite
intelligent. Perhaps its major shortcoming is that it came from Microsoft,
because the shrill, religious, anti-Microsoft rhetoric that inevitably
accompanies anything that comes from Redmond drowns out whatever good there
might be.

I don't know him, so I can't say.

And no, it's major shortcoming is not that it's from Microsoft. It's
the fact it's a proprietary language which has no real support on other
platforms. Yes, I know there are some open source projects out there
which are attempting to port it to other platforms. But as soon as one
of them gets successful enough to start costing Microsoft some money,
MS's lawyers will be all over every one of those programmers.

And BTW - yes, I've used it before. I find a lot of other languages
better. And I'm not going to start listing the number of things I find
wrong with it here. It's off-topic and I don't have three days to type
it all in.

I can think of any number of languages which are better.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

[Rik]

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

It's off-topic

Which is actually the main irritation :P

--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

[Rik]

Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrote:

And yes, C# is a great language - for Microsoft bigots and idiots who
don't know any better. Which are you?

[terribly lame]
Jerry has learned to stay away from sharp objects the hard way
[/terrribly lame]
--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions: http://tinyurl.com/anel

[windandwaves]

On Mar 11, 8:35 pm, Rik <[e-mail]:

Jerry Stuckle <[e-mail]:

And yes, C# is a great language - for Microsoft bigots and idiots who
don't know any better. Which are you?

[terribly lame]
Jerry has learned to stay away from sharp objects the hard way
[/terrribly lame]
--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions:http://tinyurl.com/anel

So ...

I only know PHP and VB right now. What do you recommend I learn next
and how shall I go about it? I would love to learn Java or something
really valuable so that I can earn some more money. Do you have any
recommendations?

Ta

Nicolaas

[Jerry Stuckle]

windandwaves wrote:

On Mar 11, 8:35 pm, Rik <[e-mail]:

>Jerry Stuckle <[e-mail]:

>>And yes, C# is a great language - for Microsoft bigots and idiots who
don't know any better. Which are you?

[terribly lame]
Jerry has learned to stay away from sharp objects the hard way
[/terrribly lame]
--
Rik Wasmus
Posted on Usenet, not any forum you might see this in.
Ask Smart Questions:http://tinyurl.com/anel

So ...

I only know PHP and VB right now. What do you recommend I learn next
and how shall I go about it? I would love to learn Java or something
really valuable so that I can earn some more money. Do you have any
recommendations?

Ta

Nicolaas

Nicolaas,

You can make decent money in any language if you're good enough at it
and market yourself properly.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================