What is the learning curve for PHP?

[K.J.Williams]

Hello,

A friend and I want to learn PHP but we have two totally different
programming backgrounds.
I have experience with procedural programming in C, and he has
experience with Visual BASIC.
Well we wanted to know, what type of learning curve ( of difficulty )
we would have trying to learn PHP?
Also, What will be the most significant changes for us to adapt to? I
wanted to know if PHP is like
bash shell scripting for Linux?

Thanks
KJW

[Sanders Kaufman]

K.J.Williams wrote:

Hello,

A friend and I want to learn PHP but we have two totally different
programming backgrounds.
I have experience with procedural programming in C, and he has
experience with Visual BASIC.
Well we wanted to know, what type of learning curve ( of difficulty )
we would have trying to learn PHP?
Also, What will be the most significant changes for us to adapt to? I
wanted to know if PHP is like
bash shell scripting for Linux?

Since you already know the basics of programming - conditional
loops, operators, scope, data types, etc - it should be
relatively quick to learn PHP.

The only part that might gum up the works is if you're not
well-versed in HTML/JavaScript.

[Erwin Moller]

K.J.Williams wrote:

Hello,

A friend and I want to learn PHP but we have two totally different
programming backgrounds.
I have experience with procedural programming in C, and he has
experience with Visual BASIC.
Well we wanted to know, what type of learning curve ( of difficulty )
we would have trying to learn PHP?
Also, What will be the most significant changes for us to adapt to? I
wanted to know if PHP is like
bash shell scripting for Linux?

Thanks
KJW

Hi,

You have both a good background to start learning PHP fast.
In PHP you can work procedural. If you are confortable with the language,
you can start OOP too (no need, just another way of programming, cleaner in
some aspects).

PHP is easy to pick up.

Things to focus on from the start (in my humble opinion)
- Understand HTML forms
- Understand how PHP receives information (superglobal $_GET[] and $_POST[])
from the forms.
- keep paying attention to php.ini. It may seem like a dull piece of
settings in the beginning, but you'll understand more of it as you learn
more PHP. Just keep coming back there. :-)
- use www.php.net always to lookup functions.
Pay attention to the often usefull comments by other users.
- Get a good book (O'Reilly has a few good ones)
- If you recycle other people's code, never copy/paste, but just
rebuild/retype it yourself, using the examplecode only as a reference.
(This increases understanding in my opinion)
- If you plan on using a database, beware SQL injection. This involves
understanding of the database, php.ini (magic_quotes and such), and make it
a habbit of echo'ing all your SQL untill you are comfortable you know what
happens.
- Get a nice editor with syntax highlighting.
- important: make sure you let PHP see all the errors/notices/warning/etc.
(Again in php.ini: error_reporting )
- When confused, come to comp.lang.php, but you found that place already.
;-)
We have an active helpfull community here. This group is one of the
friendliest and helpful usenetgroups I have seen. You never have to wait
long for a response.

And of course: Enjoy!

Regards,
Erwin Moller

[Toby A Inkster]

K.J.Williams wrote:

A friend and I want to learn PHP but we have two totally different
programming backgrounds.
I have experience with procedural programming in C, and he has
experience with Visual BASIC.
Well we wanted to know, what type of learning curve ( of difficulty )
we would have trying to learn PHP?

PHP's syntax is fairly like C.

- Function calls are "function_name( )"

- Lines end in semicolons

- Whitespace is mostly insignificant

- "if", "for", "while" and "switch" syntax is pretty much
the same

- Most of the mathematical, boolean, assignment and comparison
operators are the same

The biggest difference in syntax is that variables in PHP always begin
with a dollar sign, e.g. $foo.

However, PHP is a much higher level language than C. You rarely need to
worry about casting variables to a different type, and never have to deal
with pointers. Strings are a basic data type in PHP, and don't need to be
treated as an array of characters. Indeed, there isn't a character data
type -- characters are just strings with length 1.

PHP has a lot more functions built in to the language, compared to C where
a lot of functionality (e.g. database connectivity, regular expressions,
networking functions) needs to be imported through libraries.

PHP4 has a certain amount of OO support, and PHP 5 has almost as much OO
support as Java does; however, you don't have to use it!

Also, What will be the most significant changes for us to adapt to? I
wanted to know if PHP is like bash shell scripting for Linux?

Assuming that your previous programming experience is with GUI or
command-line programming in C/VB, then probably the biggest change you'll
need to make is not the new programming language that you'll need to
learn, but the paradigm shift of moving from desktop programming to web
programming.

With desktop programming, you're drawing objects to the local screen, and
you can draw these objects whenever you like really. With web programming,
your program has no direct access to the screen, keyboard or mouse of the
client machine. All you get told is that someone has requested page X with
query string Y and post data Z. Your program has a few seconds to figure
out what data it needs to send back, assemble that into some HTML and
output that. Then the data goes back to the client, whose machine renders
it to their screen using a mechanism that is beyond your control. Fun, eh?

Seriously, I think the desktop->web paradigm shift is a much bigger leap
than the change of programming language. I'd suggest at first writing a
CGI program, such as a small web forum, in a language you're familiar with
(e.g. C, or bash scripting) at first, and getting a feel for how web
programming as a whole works, and then make the shift to doing it with
PHP, which will then be comparatively easy.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

* = I'm getting there!

[Mary Pegg]

Toby A Inkster wrote:

K.J.Williams wrote:

>Well we wanted to know, what type of learning curve ( of difficulty )
we would have trying to learn PHP?

With a good background in C, PHP is very easy.

PHP's syntax is fairly like C.

<snip>

Variable scope is worth looking at before you start:
http://uk2.php.net/manual/en/languag...bles.scope.php

The biggest difference in syntax is that variables in PHP always begin
with a dollar sign, e.g. $foo.

He, that's always the gotcha when you switch to PHP from C.

PHP has a lot more functions built in to the language, compared to C where
a lot of functionality (e.g. database connectivity, regular expressions,
networking functions) needs to be imported through libraries.

There are core functions, and then there are functions that need to be
compiled in (but usually are):
http://www.php.net/manual/en/functions.internal.php

It's worth remembering as a PHP noob that chances are, there's already
a function to do it.

PHP4 has a certain amount of OO support, and PHP 5 has almost as much OO
support as Java does; however, you don't have to use it!

If you want OO then it's probably best to go with a language that was
designed that way in the first place.

--
"Checking identity papers is a complete waste of time. If anyone can
be counted on to have valid papers, it will be the terrorists".

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Oliver_Gr=E4tz?=]

K.J.Williams schrieb:

Hello,

A friend and I want to learn PHP but we have two totally different
programming backgrounds.
I have experience with procedural programming in C, and he has
experience with Visual BASIC.

PHP has a C background. A lot of functions that you know from C can be
used with PHP just like you know them. For example, there's the C
coder's much beloved sprintf(). The control strucutres like for() and
if() are also very much like C. PHP also shares with C++ the ability to
mix procedural and object oriented code. As for the VisualBASIC
programmer, there's much logic to gain and there are many oddities to
forget about ;-)

Well we wanted to know, what type of learning curve ( of difficulty )
we would have trying to learn PHP?

First success is easily obtained. That's why PHP is so popular. And the
quality of the online documentation at php.net is just great. The
hardest thing to understand when coding for the web with PHP is to
understand the oddities of the stateless HTTP protocol. You don't have
your PHP app running all day long! A request comes in, your script runs
and produces output and then the script dies. Persistence surviving a
single request has to be obtained by means of session, databases of the
use of shared memory segments.

Also, What will be the most significant changes for us to adapt to? I
wanted to know if PHP is like
bash shell scripting for Linux?

And how IS shell scripting for Linux for you? You can't assume everyone
feeling the same way about this...

OLLi

--
Kajiggers!

[Mary Pegg]

Oliver Grätz wrote:

mix procedural and object oriented code. As for the VisualBASIC
programmer, there's much logic to gain and there are many oddities to
forget about ;-)

What comes to mind is that a BASIC programmer might expect this:
if (func1() and func2()) { func3(); }
to evaluate func2() regardless of what func1() returns.

AIUI. IANABP. Well, not for many many years.

--
"Checking identity papers is a complete waste of time. If anyone can
be counted on to have valid papers, it will be the terrorists".

[K.J.Williams]

Well my friend who uses VB has a problem , AND IVE TOLD HIM MANY TIMES
about this...

HE USES GOTO.... for all of his jump routines in VB.
I said to him that the practice of using goto, is like
a garotte for programmers. How he lives with the frustration
I dont know - thats why I program in C not VB. My conversion
from BASIC to C long ago was caused by GOTO sphagetti code.
C has GOTO too... but I have avoided GOTO like the plague
ever since then and I hope I never use such a thing.

So my friend's concern is importing his tactics of using goto in PHP
from his practice in VB.

I hope PHP does not have a GOTO - no programmer ( except for those in
assembly ) should ever use a goto statement.

Should I assume PHP doesn't have a GOTO for my friends case?

Thanks again

On Mar 30, 2:30 am, Toby A Inkster <usenet200...@t obyinkster.co.u k>
wrote:

K.J.Williams wrote:

A friend and I want to learn PHP but we have two totally different
programming backgrounds.
I have experience with procedural programming in C, and he has
experience with Visual BASIC.
Well we wanted to know, what type of learning curve ( of difficulty )
we would have trying to learn PHP?

PHP's syntax is fairly like C.

- Function calls are "function_name( )"

- Lines end in semicolons

- Whitespace is mostly insignificant

- "if", "for", "while" and "switch" syntax is pretty much
the same

- Most of the mathematical, boolean, assignment and comparison
operators are the same

The biggest difference in syntax is that variables in PHP always begin
with a dollar sign, e.g. $foo.

However, PHP is a much higher level language than C. You rarely need to
worry about casting variables to a different type, and never have to deal
with pointers. Strings are a basic data type in PHP, and don't need to be
treated as an array of characters. Indeed, there isn't a character data
type -- characters are just strings with length 1.

PHP has a lot more functions built in to the language, compared to C where
a lot of functionality (e.g. database connectivity, regular expressions,
networking functions) needs to be imported through libraries.

PHP4 has a certain amount of OO support, and PHP 5 has almost as much OO
support as Java does; however, you don't have to use it!

Also, What will be the most significant changes for us to adapt to? I
wanted to know if PHP is like bash shell scripting for Linux?

Assuming that your previous programming experience is with GUI or
command-line programming in C/VB, then probably the biggest change you'll
need to make is not the new programming language that you'll need to
learn, but the paradigm shift of moving from desktop programming to web
programming.

With desktop programming, you're drawing objects to the local screen, and
you can draw these objects whenever you like really. With web programming,
your program has no direct access to the screen, keyboard or mouse of the
client machine. All you get told is that someone has requested page X with
query string Y and post data Z. Your program has a few seconds to figure
out what data it needs to send back, assemble that into some HTML and
output that. Then the data goes back to the client, whose machine renders
it to their screen using a mechanism that is beyond your control. Fun, eh?

Seriously, I think the desktop->web paradigm shift is a much bigger leap
than the change of programming language. I'd suggest at first writing a
CGI program, such as a small web forum, in a language you're familiar with
(e.g. C, or bash scripting) at first, and getting a feel for how web
programming as a whole works, and then make the shift to doing it with
PHP, which will then be comparatively easy.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

* = I'm getting there!

[Toby A Inkster]

K.J.Williams wrote:

Should I assume PHP doesn't have a GOTO for my friends case?

There is a proposal for "goto" to be included in PHP 6, but it will
probably not be called "goto". And the one proposed is more like the
Perl concept of goto -- which has virtually nothing in common with the
BASIC goto. The Perl goto is a far more limited statement, which just
allows you to jump out of loops in a particular way.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

* = I'm getting there!

[K.J.Williams]

I was thinking about learning PHP, using PHP+GTK2. Will it let me
write scripts that produce client applications like Java?

Thanks again

On Mar 30, 2:30 am, Toby A Inkster <usenet200...@t obyinkster.co.u k>
wrote:

K.J.Williams wrote:

A friend and I want to learn PHP but we have two totally different
programming backgrounds.
I have experience with procedural programming in C, and he has
experience with Visual BASIC.
Well we wanted to know, what type of learning curve ( of difficulty )
we would have trying to learn PHP?

PHP's syntax is fairly like C.

- Function calls are "function_name( )"

- Lines end in semicolons

- Whitespace is mostly insignificant

- "if", "for", "while" and "switch" syntax is pretty much
the same

- Most of the mathematical, boolean, assignment and comparison
operators are the same

The biggest difference in syntax is that variables in PHP always begin
with a dollar sign, e.g. $foo.

However, PHP is a much higher level language than C. You rarely need to
worry about casting variables to a different type, and never have to deal
with pointers. Strings are a basic data type in PHP, and don't need to be
treated as an array of characters. Indeed, there isn't a character data
type -- characters are just strings with length 1.

PHP has a lot more functions built in to the language, compared to C where
a lot of functionality (e.g. database connectivity, regular expressions,
networking functions) needs to be imported through libraries.

PHP4 has a certain amount of OO support, and PHP 5 has almost as much OO
support as Java does; however, you don't have to use it!

Also, What will be the most significant changes for us to adapt to? I
wanted to know if PHP is like bash shell scripting for Linux?

Assuming that your previous programming experience is with GUI or
command-line programming in C/VB, then probably the biggest change you'll
need to make is not the new programming language that you'll need to
learn, but the paradigm shift of moving from desktop programming to web
programming.

With desktop programming, you're drawing objects to the local screen, and
you can draw these objects whenever you like really. With web programming,
your program has no direct access to the screen, keyboard or mouse of the
client machine. All you get told is that someone has requested page X with
query string Y and post data Z. Your program has a few seconds to figure
out what data it needs to send back, assemble that into some HTML and
output that. Then the data goes back to the client, whose machine renders
it to their screen using a mechanism that is beyond your control. Fun, eh?

Seriously, I think the desktop->web paradigm shift is a much bigger leap
than the change of programming language. I'd suggest at first writing a
CGI program, such as a small web forum, in a language you're familiar with
(e.g. C, or bash scripting) at first, and getting a feel for how web
programming as a whole works, and then make the shift to doing it with
PHP, which will then be comparatively easy.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

* = I'm getting there!