Comparison of DB2 and Oracle?

[Rhino]

One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
newsgroup access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be telling him
how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup searches.

Scott has heard a lot of hype about DB2 and Oracle and is trying to
understand the pros and cons of each product. I'm quite familiar with DB2
but have never used Oracle so I can't make any meaningful comparisons for
him. He does not have a lot of database background but sometimes has to
choose or recommend a database to his clients.

Scott has enough life-experience to take the marketing information produced
by IBM and Oracle with a grain of salt and would like to hear from real
DBAs, especially ones who are fluent with both products, for their views on
two questions:

1. What are the pros and cons of the current releases of DB2 and Oracle?

2. What other sources of *independent* information are available to help
someone new to databases choose between DB2 and Oracle?

This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott just
want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
jobs.

--
Rhino

[Noons]

"Rhino" <rh****@NOSPAM. sympatico.cawro te in message news:<33******* **********@news 20.bellglobal.c om>...

One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
newsgroup access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be telling him
how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup searches.

etcetcetc...

Hmmm, lemme get this straight: Scott is a consultant
with lots of life-experience and he can figure out when
he's being given a ride. But, he doesn't know much about
databases... And he doesn't have access to newsgroups. But
he can use google newsgroups to follow a discussion.
Yet he doesnt know how to post in google newsgroups.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.... ........

I'm sorry, but Scott reads as a fake. His password is not "TIGER",
is it? And the free class for "would be marketeers looking for an
easy ride on the next positioning paper" is now closed.
Too boring to do all over again. Private contributions
to my preferred charity are, of course, accepted.

This is *not* a troll

Of course not!

and we don't want to start a flame war!

Perish the thought...

Scott just
want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
jobs.

Scott needs to read more about both products. And
learn more about IT, particularly databases.
Instead of hoping a Usenet discussion
is going to provide a free ride.

<plonk>

[Bruce M]

Hans Forbrich <ne*******@telu s.netwrote in message news:<h3Scd.182 05$cr4.15935@ed tnps84>...

Mark Townsend wrote:

Rhino wrote:

>
This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott just
want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
jobs.

Two things

1) This WILL end in a flame war.

I agree Mark. This discussion, in a public forum such as these lists, will
attract the strong supporters and will invariably devolve to a religious
discussion.

First step should be to develop a set of business requirements. Then ask
experts to explain how each product under consideration will satisfy the
requirements.

Then decide based on who you trust! Ultimately both products, as well as
some open source (or soon to be open source - sic), will satisfy many
business requirements.
<Now my religious rant ...>

Don't let anyone tell you that Oracle is the most expensive - that myth
comes from people who buy before they think (or have someone else think for
them) and then avoid or are ignorant of what they have bought. And is
encouraged by each and every competitor.

If used properly, and if you don't re-invent the wheel by using built-in
features and capabilities, the difference in long term cost (between
Oracle, DB2, Ingres, MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQL Server, etc.) is very, very
small.

I happen to prefer Oracle because it provides a lot of functionality in the
database at no additional price - functionality that I see required in many
apps such as: workflow, message queueing, replication, subqueries, direct
http request/response capability, security, backup/recovery, admin &
management tools, job scheduler (akin to cron, but inside the DB), DB
initiated callouts to OS shared libraries, DB initiated mail & page, DB
initiated TCP calls, and so on.

These capabilities may exist in other database managers, but if not (or if
the developer doesn't know/understand how to use them in Oracle) these
capabilities will be duplicated. That moves the money from "product price"
to "developmen t cost" in creating the application and the cost of
supporting the application into the hands of the developer instead of the
'vendor'. (You pay for it somehow <g>)

Aside from that, there _are_ a few technical differences ... I'll leave
those to others.

<end rant>

2) You have posted this message to a defunct Oracle group. If you insist
on starting this at least use the right targets -
comp.databases. oracle.server

Copied to comp.databases. oracle.server. Requesting all other threads and
potential replies to this one PLEASE remove cdo and only use cdo.server

Thanks
/Hans

-----------------

Huh? This guy is told NOT to get religous and there somebody gets
religious on him...not fair.

[Hans Forbrich]

Bruce M wrote:

>
Huh? This guy is told NOT to get religous and there somebody gets
religious on him...not fair.

Not quite. I warned that I had a bias AND I didn't say anything technical
<g>

[Rhino]

"DA Morgan" <da******@x.was hington.eduwrot e in message
news:1098155825 .612649@yasure. ..

Rhino wrote:

>Secondly, when you post and ask such questions here ... all you are
going to get are people's opinions ... some very biased opinions.

That's why I was hoping to hear from people who had used both Oracle and

DB2

but weren't employees (or resellers) of either of them. The marketing
information by the vendor always tends to be skewed in some way that is
favourable to the vendor but not necessarily a fair way.

So what exactly is the value given by people in the DB2 usenet group
saying "We're best" while the people in the Oracle usenet groups say
"We're best"?

I was actually hoping to hear from people who had used BOTH products so that
they could tell me which they prefered and why.

Rhino

[Rhino]

"DA Morgan" <da******@x.was hington.eduwrot e in message
news:1098158866 .213704@yasure. ..

Rhino wrote:

"DA Morgan" <da******@x.was hington.eduwrot e in message
news:41******** ******@x.washin gton.edu...

>Rhino wrote:

One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
newsgroup access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be

telling

him

>>how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup searches.

Scott has heard a lot of hype about DB2 and Oracle and is trying to
understand the pros and cons of each product. I'm quite familiar with

DB2

>>but have never used Oracle so I can't make any meaningful comparisons

for

>>him. He does not have a lot of database background but sometimes has to
choose or recommend a database to his clients.

Scott has enough life-experience to take the marketing information

produced

>>by IBM and Oracle with a grain of salt and would like to hear from real
DBAs, especially ones who are fluent with both products, for their

views

on

>>two questions:

1. What are the pros and cons of the current releases of DB2 and

Oracle?

>>
2. What other sources of *independent* information are available to

help

>>someone new to databases choose between DB2 and Oracle?

This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott

just

>>want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at

which

>>jobs.

DB2 consists of two letters and one integer and Oracle consists of 6
letters and no integers.

This is not the first time you have tried to start a flame war and your
previous attempt is logged in my database.

Please name another time I've tried to start a flame war. If you look in
comp.databases. ibm-db2 you'll find that I am usually a responder to

people's

questions and usually only start my own posts when I have a technical of

my

own. If you look in comp.databases. oracle you'll find that I've never

posted

there before because, as I said, I am not familiar with Oracle.

Can you suggest a better way to ask my question? I am trying to figure

out

how someone having to choose between Oracle and DB2 would choose one

over

the other. Surely that is a legitimate question that many people have

had to

answer.

Rhino

I am still far from convinced your question is sincere.

Well, I don't know how to convince you of that beyond what I've already
said.

But if it is the nonsense about a friend that is so wholly uneducated he
couldn't handle a stack of 3x5 cards is preposterous on its face.

I've only mentioned my friend's first name because I am trying to protect
his privacy but he definitely exists. If you like, I'll ask him for
permission to specify his full name, mailing address, and phone number and
then you can contact him to ask if he really exists.

He is rather new to systems work - I think he is just out of school - and he
doesn't had much contact with databases yet. He has heard names like Oracle
and DB2 and asked me which was best. I have no Oracle experience so I
suggested he post here and on the Oracle newsgroup but he doesn't have
newsgroup access at work or at home so I posted for him.

Now maybe that seems preposterous to you but it happens to be the truth.

So if you are serious ... ask serious questions. Do you think a hammer
is the best tool for assembling a precision watch? Do you think a
microscope appropriate for putting the propeller on an aircraft carrier?
You give an exact description of the need and someone might think you
seriously trying for something other than a flame war.

I don't think Scott has a specific requirement in mind yet so I thought I'd
ask a general question on the pros and cons of DB2 vs. Oracle. If that
doesn't suit you, feel free to ignore this thread. It would be more positive
that calling me a liar.

Rhino

[Rhino]

"Noons" <wi*******@yaho o.com.auwrote in message
news:73******** *************** ***@posting.goo gle.com...

"Rhino" <rh****@NOSPAM. sympatico.cawro te in message

news:<33******* **********@news 20.bellglobal.c om>...

One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
newsgroup access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be telling

him

how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup searches.

etcetcetc...

Hmmm, lemme get this straight: Scott is a consultant
with lots of life-experience and he can figure out when
he's being given a ride. But, he doesn't know much about
databases... And he doesn't have access to newsgroups. But
he can use google newsgroups to follow a discussion.
Yet he doesnt know how to post in google newsgroups.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.... ........

I'm sorry, but Scott reads as a fake. His password is not "TIGER",
is it? And the free class for "would be marketeers looking for an
easy ride on the next positioning paper" is now closed.
Too boring to do all over again. Private contributions
to my preferred charity are, of course, accepted.

This is *not* a troll

Of course not!

Please see my reply to DA Morgan where I explained Scott's situation in a
bit more detail. The fact is his employer doesn't allow newsgroup access at
work - I've encountered other (foolish) employers who followed the same
policy - and he plans to get newwgroup access at home but is in the middle
of a move to a new house right now. He will get newsgroup access in a few
weeks once he's settled in his new house. *I* told him about Google's
newsgroup reading capabilities so that he could read these replies from his
browser; I don't think he knew about Google newsgroup archives before.

Since none of that is relevant to the question at hand, I omitted it from
the post. Besides, what possible benefit could I get from making him up?? I
was simply trying to explain that I was asking a question for a friend who
had such-and-such a level of understanding of database. Period.

Now, do you have anything useful to contribute to the discussion?

and we don't want to start a flame war!

Perish the thought...

Scott just
want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at which
jobs.

Scott needs to read more about both products. And
learn more about IT, particularly databases.
Instead of hoping a Usenet discussion
is going to provide a free ride.

Nobody's looking for a free ride. He/we just wanted to hear from people who
had used BOTH products to see what their pros and cons were. He/we also
wanted recommendations about good independent sources of reviews of these
products. That's exactly what I asked for.

Rhino

[Larry]

Rhino,

There is no way to discuss pros and cons of DB2 and Oracle in a
constructive way (i.e. in a way that would provide value to the
customer) without going back to specific customer requirements, which
you are telling us that he doesn't have. There just isn't a good answer.
The first thing he needs to learn to be a successful consultant is that
EVERYTHING begins with customer requirements. It's kinda like going car
shopping and asking the dealers to compare a Nissan Altima with a Honda
Accord. You need to know certain things about how you're going to use
the car to make heads or tails of what they are going to tell you.

Larry Edelstein

Rhino wrote:

"DA Morgan" <da******@x.was hington.eduwrot e in message
news:1098158866 .213704@yasure. ..

>>Rhino wrote:

>>>"DA Morgan" <da******@x.was hington.eduwrot e in message
news:41***** *********@x.was hington.edu...
Rhino wrote:
>One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
>newsgrou p access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be

telling

>>>him
>how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup searches.
>
>Scott has heard a lot of hype about DB2 and Oracle and is trying to
>understa nd the pros and cons of each product. I'm quite familiar with

DB2
>but have never used Oracle so I can't make any meaningful comparisons

for
>him. He does not have a lot of database background but sometimes has to
>choose or recommend a database to his clients.
>
>Scott has enough life-experience to take the marketing information

produced
>by IBM and Oracle with a grain of salt and would like to hear from real
>DBAs, especially ones who are fluent with both products, for their

views

>>>on
>two questions:
>
>1. What are the pros and cons of the current releases of DB2 and

Oracle?

>>>>>2. What other sources of *independent* information are available to

help

>>>>>someone new to databases choose between DB2 and Oracle?
>
>This is *not* a troll and we don't want to start a flame war! Scott

just

>>>>>want some honest facts to help him decide which product is best at

which

>>>>>jobs.

DB2 consists of two letters and one integer and Oracle consists of 6
letters and no integers.

This is not the first time you have tried to start a flame war and your
previous attempt is logged in my database.
Please name another time I've tried to start a flame war. If you look in
comp.databas es.ibm-db2 you'll find that I am usually a responder to

people's

>>>questions and usually only start my own posts when I have a technical of

my

>>>own. If you look in comp.databases. oracle you'll find that I've never

posted

>>>there before because, as I said, I am not familiar with Oracle.

Can you suggest a better way to ask my question? I am trying to figure

out

>>>how someone having to choose between Oracle and DB2 would choose one

over

>>>the other. Surely that is a legitimate question that many people have

had to

>>>answer.

Rhino

I am still far from convinced your question is sincere.

Well, I don't know how to convince you of that beyond what I've already
said.

>>But if it is the nonsense about a friend that is so wholly uneducated he
couldn't handle a stack of 3x5 cards is preposterous on its face.

I've only mentioned my friend's first name because I am trying to protect
his privacy but he definitely exists. If you like, I'll ask him for
permission to specify his full name, mailing address, and phone number and
then you can contact him to ask if he really exists.

He is rather new to systems work - I think he is just out of school - and he
doesn't had much contact with databases yet. He has heard names like Oracle
and DB2 and asked me which was best. I have no Oracle experience so I
suggested he post here and on the Oracle newsgroup but he doesn't have
newsgroup access at work or at home so I posted for him.

Now maybe that seems preposterous to you but it happens to be the truth.

>>So if you are serious ... ask serious questions. Do you think a hammer
is the best tool for assembling a precision watch? Do you think a
microscope appropriate for putting the propeller on an aircraft carrier?
You give an exact description of the need and someone might think you
seriously trying for something other than a flame war.

I don't think Scott has a specific requirement in mind yet so I thought I'd
ask a general question on the pros and cons of DB2 vs. Oracle. If that
doesn't suit you, feel free to ignore this thread. It would be more positive
that calling me a liar.

Rhino

[Jim Kennedy]

"Rhino" <rh****@NOSPAM. sympatico.cawro te in message
news:Lx******** ************@ne ws20.bellglobal .com...

>
"DA Morgan" <da******@x.was hington.eduwrot e in message
news:1098155825 .612649@yasure. ..

Rhino wrote:

>>Secondly, when you post and ask such questions here ... all you are
>>going to get are people's opinions ... some very biased opinions.
>
>
That's why I was hoping to hear from people who had used both Oracle

and

DB2

but weren't employees (or resellers) of either of them. The marketing
information by the vendor always tends to be skewed in some way that

is

favourable to the vendor but not necessarily a fair way.

So what exactly is the value given by people in the DB2 usenet group
saying "We're best" while the people in the Oracle usenet groups say
"We're best"?

I was actually hoping to hear from people who had used BOTH products so

that

they could tell me which they prefered and why.

Rhino

I liked Oracle better because the concurrency model is much nicer. I found
that you had to run DB2 in autocommit mode if you used dynamic SQL because
of page locks on the plan table. Never had to worry about that in Oracle.
That doesn't really tell you much. It would be much better if you actually
did some work and said what your business needs.
Jim

[Serge Rielau]

DB2 UDB for LUW does not have page locks.. Only row and table level

[DA Morgan]

michael newport wrote:

I used Ingres for 15 years
I have now used Oracle for 1 year
I am doing the same work now that I did on Ingres, except Oracle costs
a lot of money, and Ingres is free.

You can download Ingres from www.ca.com and give it a test.

Perhaps rather than doing on Oracle what you used to do on Ingres you
should try leveraging what Oracle can do and do things differently.

Your statement is roughly equivalent to ... I used to build houses
with a hammer. Now I work in a glass factory and ....

Had you said 15 years of Ingres and 1 year of DB2 or Informix or 3x5
cards I'd have given the same advice.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with 'u' to respond)