Can SVG be a potential replacement for PDF?

Mark

I'm curious to get feedback regarding the potential SVG has in
performing the same functionality as PDF for fixing documents.

Thanks.

Mark

Jul 20 '05 #1

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3916

Aandi Inston

Mark <ma**@nowhere.c om> wrote:

I'm curious to get feedback regarding the potential SVG has in
performing the same functionality as PDF for fixing documents.

"fixing"? In what sense were they broke?
----------------------------------------
Aandi Inston qu***@dial.pipe x.com http://www.quite.com
Please support usenet! Post replies and follow-ups, don't e-mail them.

Jul 20 '05 #2

Robert M. Franz (RMF)

Hi Mark

Mark wrote:

I'm curious to get feedback regarding the potential SVG has in
performing the same functionality as PDF for fixing documents.

SVG is a graphic format. How would you pack a multi-page document into
that ...?

2cents
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

Jul 20 '05 #3

Mark

Robert M. Franz wrote:

Mark wrote:
I'm curious to get feedback regarding the potential SVG has in
performing the same functionality as PDF for fixing documents.

SVG is a graphic format. How would you pack a multi-page document into
that ...?

Each page has its own SVG graphic?

Mark

Jul 20 '05 #4

Robert M. Franz (RMF)

Mark wrote:

I'm curious to get feedback regarding the potential SVG has in
performing the same functionality as PDF for fixing documents.

SVG is a graphic format. How would you pack a multi-page document into
that ...?

Each page has its own SVG graphic?

That seems impractical at best.

You really want to replace one PDF file with [enter your favourite whole
number] SVG files ...?

Greetinx
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

Jul 20 '05 #5

Mark

Robert M. Franz (RMF) wrote:

Mark wrote:
Each page has its own SVG graphic?

That seems impractical at best.

You really want to replace one PDF file with [enter your favourite whole
number] SVG files ...?

So the SVG spec has not included the functionality to have multiple
SVG graphics within a single SVG file? (Of course, multiple SVG
graphics can be embedded within an XML document using a schema which
supports islands of SVG markup.)

To rephrase, does SVG have the power to be a substitute for PDF on a
page-by-page basis? For example, could SVG be used to produce IRS
forms which would look identical to the PDF versions? Or does
Postscript still have more power than SVG at the exact "fixation" of
text on a page?

Mark

Jul 20 '05 #6

Dick Margulis

Aandi Inston wrote:

Mark <ma**@nowhere.c om> wrote:

I'm curious to get feedback regarding the potential SVG has in
performing the same functionality as PDF for fixing documents.

"fixing"? In what sense were they broke?

Aw c'mon, Aandi. His meaning is clear enough. Fixing in the sense of
locking (as in fixing a microscopic specimen on a slide, for example).

Jul 20 '05 #7

Ralf Koenig

Mark wrote:

I'm curious to get feedback regarding the potential SVG has in
performing the same functionality as PDF for fixing documents.

"fixing" in the sense of "prepare a self-contained, platform-independent
stand-alone document including all resources".

To answer the question in the subject: Yes, but ...

If you compare the specs, the scope of both of SVG and PDF is pretty
much equivalent. Both build upon the Adobe graphics model for rendering
objects: They share stuff like coordinate systems, graphics stack,
operator names for basic obejcts, set of allowed operators, all this
low-level stuff.

PDF is more mature in terms of specification of embedded blobs
(compression algorithms, fonts, images), but XML (and therefore future
versions of SVG) is extensible enough to support this as well. SVG would
be a lot more accessible though with a simpler structure.

There are relatively good converters between PDF<->SVG, which kind of
proves their strong relationship.

The following three are very close to each other conceptually:

* PostScript :
* strengths in printing (fonts, halftoning, support of device
dependent features in PPD, ...)

* PDF : derived from PostScript with more "web features"

* multi page documents with navigation
* much better structure than PostScript
* better compression algorithms
* mostly device-independent
* optional linear organization to improve streaming
* object tree for page independance
* support of hyperlinks
* fillable fields
* bookmarks
* scripting with JavaScript
* document meta data
* document security model
* better performance by stuff like xref table, incremental write
* one-vendor spec with advantages (consistency, reference
implementation) and disadvantages (dependency, patenting issues, ...)
* commonly seen as too complex with too many features
* specializations : PDF/A for archival, PDF/X for printing and
reliable document exchange in the graphics and publishing industry

* SVG :
* XML-based
* extensible
* single page documents
* easy to make simple examples
* scripting with JavaScript
* fits XML-based workflows best
* but: XML with namespaces gets more complex
* SVG moves towards multiple implementation profiles to support
embedded applications such as mobile phones, where PDF would be too complex
* so far Adobe makes the most wide-spread SVG viewer, it's in their
hand whether they push SVG or PDF. So far, they pushed PDF.

Microsoft wants to push SVG with Longhorn, but - as usual - they made
their own dialect of SVG called WVG (Windows Vector Graphics) with
extensions.

It's just that PDF seems to be the best mix with best software support
currently, which explains the predominance of PDF over SVG. This may
well change when SVG support esp. in browsers, features and maturity
improve.

Ralf

Jul 20 '05 #8

larrynospam

I understand by "fixation" you mean location or position on the page. PDF
is normally limited by the page resolution you've selected (default 1200
dpi) but can go higher (not sure of the limit). Remember, the PDF format
can and often uses a text searchable format, as well as meta-words
(keywords) and indexing to further apply the use of PDFs. An all graphic
format could have some of this, special when combined with an additional
markup or embedded application (xml, html and so on) but I doubt it would
work as smoothly nor is it likely that 3rd party software would be as
willing to interface (we like really, really well defined standards). As
for identical looking documents, you picked a very good example. IRS pdf
forms typically use a number of fonts, some not so common, to build the form
and this is where differences may start to occur (size of the dots,
arrowheads, and serifs on characters are often troublesome). Although these
differences may be miniscule, it could make some forms non-machine readable,
such as a the "notorious" Medicare services application CMS-1500 form. I do
agree however, that you certainly could build a graphic alternative to just
about any form and pass it for the original, except for text (searchable)
and embedded information, I am just not sure as to why.

Larry T.

Jul 20 '05 #9

Jan Roland Eriksson

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:06:42 +0200, Ralf Koenig
<ra*********@in formatik.tu-chemnitz.de> wrote:

Microsoft wants to push SVG with Longhorn, but - as usual - they made
their own dialect of SVG called WVG (Windows Vector Graphics) with
extensions.
What else is new :-)
It's just that PDF seems to be the best mix with best software support
currently, which explains the predominance of PDF over SVG. This may
well change when SVG support esp. in browsers, features and maturity
improve.

Not forgetting the fact that Adobe's PDF reader handles SVG just fine as
it is (via a plug in for Acrobat).

--
Rex

Jul 20 '05 #10

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