Hello all. I'm a systems admin and not a developer. I work in a large
IT department with teams of developers. Currently we are asking them to
develop a utility for us that will migrate code, among other things.
It's going to be written in .NET code, and is meant to replace our
current code migration utility which was written in VB6.
One of the functions we are asking for is the ability to send an e-mail
and a page to indicate success of failure of a code migration. The
developer is pushing back. Here's the exchange between the developer
and myself.
DEVELOPER: For an application to send an e-mail, SMTP services need to
be installed and running. To send a page, permissions need to be
implemented for internet access. Ports outside the firewall would be
needed to send pages. This creates a security issue.
ME: There is a workaround. The following script will send e-mail
without SMTP services. And as for sending a page, you use the same
e-mail script, and include a skytel e-mail address:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sendFrom = "Aler...@fabrik am.com"
SendTo = "joeu...@fabrik am.com; 1298...@skytel. com"
strSubj = "NO SMTP service needed."
strContents = "Testing e-mail script."
sch = "http://schemas.microso ft.com/cdo/configuration/"
Set cdoConfig = CreateObject("C DO.Configuratio n")
With cdoConfig.Field s
.Item(sch & "sendusing" ) = 2 ' cdoSendUsingPor t
.Item(sch & "smtpserver ") = "mail.fabrikam. com"
'.Item(sch & "smtpserverport ") = 25 ' if you need to set a port
number
.update
End With
Set cdoMessage = CreateObject ("CDO.Messag e")
With cdoMessage
Set .Configuration = cdoConfig
.From = sendFrom
.To = sendTo
.Subject = strSubj
.TextBody = strContents
.Send
End With
Set cdoConfig = nothing
Set cdoMessage = nothing
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DEVELOPER: This VB6 script is and its related calls to WMI are not
supported in .NET 1.1 or .NET 2.0 framework. The idea is to move away
from old technologies not to keep supporting them.
ME: If you can't run the equivalent code of this VBScript within .NET,
then you can run the VBScript via command line. That would allow it to
be used in the .NET 1.1 or .NET 2.0 framework.
DEVELOPER: Just because it can be run via a command line does not mean
it is a part of .NET. If you check the .NET framework reference there
is no use of WMI interfaces. It is old technology that, through the
..NET framework, is not supported.
ME: When the code migration has completed, then the .NET utility
launches an executable from the command line. That's all the
functionality it needs. That's where it stops. No other requirements
for working within the .NET framework are needed - other than the
ability for the .NET utility to launch an executable from the command
line, and pass it a couple parameters.
The rest is done by the executable that is launched - the VBScript
above.
....
I don't follow what his points are. I don't see any references to WMI
in this VBScript. Even if there were, it's really a moot point anyway -
since all we need the .NET utility to do is run an executable from the
command line. I would imagine that writing the code in .NET to run an
executable from the command line is a relatively simple task.
I would imagine that writing the code in .NET to UnZip a file is also a
relatively simple task. And this UnZip functionality is something else
we're requesting, and the developer is pushing back on this as well.
He's claiming that to include code for UnZipping files, and code for
running executables from the command line, is too complex to the point
where it would increase the cost and man-hours of the project beyond
what's reasonable.
Am I missing something here? Does this developer have valid arguments?
Thanks.
- Dave
16  1735 
"Highlander " <tr******@msn.c omwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ i3g2000cwc.goog legroups.com...
Hello all. I'm a systems admin and not a developer. I work in a large
IT department with teams of developers. Currently we are asking them to
develop a utility for us that will migrate code, among other things.
It's going to be written in .NET code, and is meant to replace our
current code migration utility which was written in VB6.
One of the functions we are asking for is the ability to send an e-mail
and a page to indicate success of failure of a code migration. The
developer is pushing back. Here's the exchange between the developer
and myself.
[snip]
Why post twice but under a different Subject line?
See "Argument with a developer".
McKirahan wrote:
"Highlander " <tr******@msn.c omwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ i3g2000cwc.goog legroups.com...
Hello all. I'm a systems admin and not a developer. I work in a large
IT department with teams of developers. Currently we are asking them to
develop a utility for us that will migrate code, among other things.
It's going to be written in .NET code, and is meant to replace our
current code migration utility which was written in VB6.
One of the functions we are asking for is the ability to send an e-mail
and a page to indicate success of failure of a code migration. The
developer is pushing back. Here's the exchange between the developer
and myself.
[snip]
Why post twice but under a different Subject line?
See "Argument with a developer".
Immediately after the first posting I realized I had some editing to
do. So I removed the original post, and reposted with the new Subject
line.
You were too quick to respond to the first post.
Looks like a slight misunderstandin g. You do need a SMTP server but it
doesn't have to be on the server on which the page runs...
I'm not sure what you meant by sending a page. You could send just HTML
markup to produce a similar result (eventually get the HTML code from a page
but you'll likely have adjustements to do so that this is usable in a mail
message).
Creating a zip library would be difficult but you'll find likely a number of
third party library doing that...
--
Patrice
"Highlander " <tr******@msn.c oma écrit dans le message de news: 11************* *********@i3g20 00...legro ups.com...
Hello all. I'm a systems admin and not a developer. I work in a large
IT department with teams of developers. Currently we are asking them to
develop a utility for us that will migrate code, among other things.
It's going to be written in .NET code, and is meant to replace our
current code migration utility which was written in VB6.
One of the functions we are asking for is the ability to send an e-mail
and a page to indicate success of failure of a code migration. The
developer is pushing back. Here's the exchange between the developer
and myself.
DEVELOPER: For an application to send an e-mail, SMTP services need to
be installed and running. To send a page, permissions need to be
implemented for internet access. Ports outside the firewall would be
needed to send pages. This creates a security issue.
ME: There is a workaround. The following script will send e-mail
without SMTP services. And as for sending a page, you use the same
e-mail script, and include a skytel e-mail address:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sendFrom = "Aler...@fabrik am.com"
SendTo = "joeu...@fabrik am.com; 1298...@skytel. com"
strSubj = "NO SMTP service needed."
strContents = "Testing e-mail script."
sch = "http://schemas.microso ft.com/cdo/configuration/"
Set cdoConfig = CreateObject("C DO.Configuratio n")
With cdoConfig.Field s
.Item(sch & "sendusing" ) = 2 ' cdoSendUsingPor t
.Item(sch & "smtpserver ") = "mail.fabrikam. com"
'.Item(sch & "smtpserverport ") = 25 ' if you need to set a port
number
.update
End With
Set cdoMessage = CreateObject ("CDO.Messag e")
With cdoMessage
Set .Configuration = cdoConfig
.From = sendFrom
.To = sendTo
.Subject = strSubj
.TextBody = strContents
.Send
End With
Set cdoConfig = nothing
Set cdoMessage = nothing
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DEVELOPER: This VB6 script is and its related calls to WMI are not
supported in .NET 1.1 or .NET 2.0 framework. The idea is to move away
from old technologies not to keep supporting them.
ME: If you can't run the equivalent code of this VBScript within .NET,
then you can run the VBScript via command line. That would allow it to
be used in the .NET 1.1 or .NET 2.0 framework.
DEVELOPER: Just because it can be run via a command line does not mean
it is a part of .NET. If you check the .NET framework reference there
is no use of WMI interfaces. It is old technology that, through the
.NET framework, is not supported.
ME: When the code migration has completed, then the .NET utility
launches an executable from the command line. That's all the
functionality it needs. That's where it stops. No other requirements
for working within the .NET framework are needed - other than the
ability for the .NET utility to launch an executable from the command
line, and pass it a couple parameters.
The rest is done by the executable that is launched - the VBScript
above.
...
I don't follow what his points are. I don't see any references to WMI
in this VBScript. Even if there were, it's really a moot point anyway -
since all we need the .NET utility to do is run an executable from the
command line. I would imagine that writing the code in .NET to run an
executable from the command line is a relatively simple task.
I would imagine that writing the code in .NET to UnZip a file is also a
relatively simple task. And this UnZip functionality is something else
we're requesting, and the developer is pushing back on this as well.
He's claiming that to include code for UnZipping files, and code for
running executables from the command line, is too complex to the point
where it would increase the cost and man-hours of the project beyond
what's reasonable.
Am I missing something here? Does this developer have valid arguments?
Thanks.
- Dave
You were too quick to respond to the first post.
Incorrect.
First, there is no such thing as being too quick to respond to a newsgroup
posting.
Second, once a newsgroup posting is posted, you cannot "remove" it. It is
there.
Your correct action would have been to respond to your first post with your
correction. When you post multiple posts of the same question, how will you
know where to look for your answer? In fact, I have given you a detailed
response to your first post. Now you just have to find it.
Which brings me to my final point: Cross-posting to multiple newsgroups is
not considered good netiquette, and is likely to result in your not being
able to find any answers, since the answers will not necessarily be posted
to all of the newsgroups you posted to, and people who help others (such as
myself) do not like answering questions that have already been answered
elsewhere. Our time is too valuable, and we are not paid to do this - hence,
bad netiquette. If you irritate people, they are less likely to help.
Your ignorance of how newsgroups work is understandable - everyone has to
learn sometime. So, please just take this advice in the friendly spirit in
which it is given.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Software Composer http://unclechutney.blogspot.com
If the Truth hurts, wear it.
"Highlander " <tr******@msn.c omwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ c28g2000cwb.goo glegroups.com.. .
>
McKirahan wrote:
>"Highlander " <tr******@msn.c omwrote in message
news:11******* *************** @i3g2000cwc.goo glegroups.com.. .
Hello all. I'm a systems admin and not a developer. I work in a large
IT department with teams of developers. Currently we are asking them to
develop a utility for us that will migrate code, among other things.
It's going to be written in .NET code, and is meant to replace our
current code migration utility which was written in VB6.
One of the functions we are asking for is the ability to send an e-mail
and a page to indicate success of failure of a code migration. The
developer is pushing back. Here's the exchange between the developer
and myself.
[snip]
Why post twice but under a different Subject line?
See "Argument with a developer".
Immediately after the first posting I realized I had some editing to
do. So I removed the original post, and reposted with the new Subject
line.
You were too quick to respond to the first post.
"Highlander " <tr******@msn.c omwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ c28g2000cwb.goo glegroups.com.. .
Immediately after the first posting I realized I had some editing to
do. So I removed the original post, and reposted with the new Subject
line.
You were too quick to respond to the first post.
Your original post is still here. You should be aware that many ISPs (or
more commonly, news hosters...that function has been outsourced by most
ISPs) do not support cancel message any more. They are too open to abuse,
and disabling that functionality is the only practical way to prevent the
abuse.
In today's "cancel-free" world, the best you can do is follow-up your
original message with any necessary clarifications. Posting two different
threads just creates confusion, and there's no reliable way to get rid of
the first thread. And of course, the first post is the one most people are
going to see first and reply to.
Pete
"Kevin Spencer" <uc*@ftc.govwro te in message
news:e4******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...
[...]
Which brings me to my final point: Cross-posting to multiple newsgroups is
not considered good netiquette, and is likely to result in your not being
able to find any answers, since the answers will not necessarily be posted
to all of the newsgroups you posted to
This is incorrect. Minimal cross-posting is in fact fine. The original
poster should monitor all newsgroups to which they posted, since of course
someone may reply while trimming the Newsgroups: field. But assuming one is
not putting off-topic newsgroups in the Newsgroups: field, cross-posting can
be a very effective means of addressing a broader-but-still-relevant
audience than a single newsgroup offers.
and people who help others (such as myself) do not like answering
questions that have already been answered elsewhere.
The alternative to cross-posting is posting to only a single newsgroup, in
which case you're going to wind up answering the question anyway. How does
an answer in a different newsgroup somehow detract from the value of your
own answer? For that matter, since Usenet isn't an immediate forum, you
could answer the question only to find out that someone else has already
answered the same question in the very newsgroup in which you've posted your
answer.
The only time I mind answering questions that have already been answered
elsewhere is when it turns out I'm a clueless dolt and the other answer
exposes my ignorance. :)
Finally, forgive me if I find just a little amusing the situation of a
person lecturing on netiquette while posting articles using someone else's
email address, a very egregious violation of netiquette.
Pete
>
DEVELOPER: This VB6 script is and its related calls to WMI are not
supported in .NET 1.1 or .NET 2.0 framework. The idea is to move away
from old technologies not to keep supporting them.
It's true that it has nothing to do with WMI,
and it's also not "VB6 script". But the programmer
is right that you'll have to use some kind of SMTP
server, and that that could possibly be a security
problem.
Maybe the better question is why you're changing
something that works to something that's fashionable.
Your programmer clearly *only* knows .Net. But that
*is* what you asked for:
"It's going to be written in .NET
code, and is meant to replace our
current code migration utility which
was written in VB6."
It sounds like you're wasting money hiring
developers to rewrite your working code into
the latest fashionable language. The only thing
more irrational than that is to waste more money
tryting to get the .Net programmer to write the
new product with the old code.
Is this, by any chance, a government contract? :)
This is incorrect. Minimal cross-posting is in fact fine. The original
poster should monitor all newsgroups to which they posted, since of course
someone may reply while trimming the Newsgroups: field. But assuming one
is not putting off-topic newsgroups in the Newsgroups: field,
cross-posting can be a very effective means of addressing a
broader-but-still-relevant audience than a single newsgroup offers.
And *that* is all opinion. While I gave logical reasons for my counsel, you
simply stated opinions as if they were facts, without any logical reasons to
support them. Furthermore, *I* am not asking for advice. How is your
criticism helpful ?
In addition, I notice that you never did help the OP. I gave the OP a
detailed answer to his question earlier (in response his original post).
Perhaps you just like to criticise people, rather than help.
The only time I mind answering questions that have already been answered
elsewhere is when it turns out I'm a clueless dolt and the other answer
exposes my ignorance. :)
Perhaps you have plenty of spare time. Mine is worth a good bit of money,
and I have very little to spare. And I don't believe that your opinion is
representative of the majority of experts who participate in these
newsgroups out of a sense of social conscience.
Finally, forgive me if I find just a little amusing the situation of a
person lecturing on netiquette while posting articles using someone else's
email address, a very egregious violation of netiquette.
Someone else's email address? Well, I suppose you must be a clueless dolt.
That is the US Federal Trade Commission's SPAM email address
( http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2002/02/eileenspam1.htm). As you may read in the
referenced web page, that address is specifically for the purpose of
forwarding SPAM. I see that you disguise your email address to prevent
SPAMmers from sending you SPAM. I go one step better. I let SPAMmers send it
directly to the FTC. If you had Googled the email address, you would have
found this out before you embarassed yourself publicly.
--
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Software Composer http://unclechutney.blogspot.com
If the Truth hurts, wear it.
"Peter Duniho" <Np*********@Nn OwSlPiAnMk.comw rote in message
news:12******** *****@corp.supe rnews.com...
"Kevin Spencer" <uc*@ftc.govwro te in message
news:e4******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...
>[...]
Which brings me to my final point: Cross-posting to multiple newsgroups
is not considered good netiquette, and is likely to result in your not
being able to find any answers, since the answers will not necessarily be
posted to all of the newsgroups you posted to
This is incorrect. Minimal cross-posting is in fact fine. The original
poster should monitor all newsgroups to which they posted, since of course
someone may reply while trimming the Newsgroups: field. But assuming one
is not putting off-topic newsgroups in the Newsgroups: field,
cross-posting can be a very effective means of addressing a
broader-but-still-relevant audience than a single newsgroup offers.
>and people who help others (such as myself) do not like answering
questions that have already been answered elsewhere.
The alternative to cross-posting is posting to only a single newsgroup, in
which case you're going to wind up answering the question anyway. How
does an answer in a different newsgroup somehow detract from the value of
your own answer? For that matter, since Usenet isn't an immediate forum,
you could answer the question only to find out that someone else has
already answered the same question in the very newsgroup in which you've
posted your answer.
The only time I mind answering questions that have already been answered
elsewhere is when it turns out I'm a clueless dolt and the other answer
exposes my ignorance. :)
Finally, forgive me if I find just a little amusing the situation of a
person lecturing on netiquette while posting articles using someone else's
email address, a very egregious violation of netiquette.
Pete
Self-Correction:
"Kevin Spencer" <uc*@ftc.govwro te in message
news:es******** *****@TK2MSFTNG P05.phx.gbl...
<snip>
In addition, I notice that you never did help the OP.
<snip>
I found Peter's answer posted in another thread, so I was incorrect in the
above statement. While the answer given was incorrect, it was an attempt to
help the OP.
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Software Composer http://unclechutney.blogspot.com
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