473,855 Members | 1,986 Online
Bytes | Software Development & Data Engineering Community
+ Post

Home Posts Topics Members FAQ

Is C++/CLI gaining any traction???

I've been looking for a new IT position, and so far, the majority of
work with respect to the Windows platform is C#/.Net, with some vb.net
requests every so often. Even many of the C++/MFC/ATL position are ones
in which the companies are looking to migrate this to C# and .Net. I
have NOT even seen one position requesting C++/CLI, let alone any
recruiters who have even heard of it!

I can understand those companies looking to create new applications
looking to start with C#, since it is the new trendy language and one
made specifically for .net, but I would think those looking to migrate
their C++/Win32/MFC/ATL stuff, would be looking at the new and improved
C++/CLI to migrate those portions which make sense to integrate .net.

Instead, I've mostly seen the following types of positions with respect
to C++ on Windows:

1) New apps with C#/.Net requested, and some vb.net only
2) Port all native C++ apps to C#/.Net
3) Stick with native C++, with no .Net at all

Like I mentioned, I can understand 1) since if your going to create new
..Net stuff, might as well use the language built specifically for it.
3) I can understand, since if you have native stuff already that is
working well for you, and especially if its apps with performance and
portability in mind, there is no reason to go .net.

2) though, is what I think is nuts! Looks like some companies have
bought into the .net hype, and are under the notion that they need to
convert their native C++ apps completely to a C# one. Sadly, they don't
seem to know that they can use C++/CLI to extend and preserve their
existing native C++ code. C++/CLI is the perfect candidate for this
type of migration, yet no one seems to be aware of it!

I can only conclude a few things: 1) C++/CLI came too late. This should
have been the first language to come out, instead of the horrendous
managed C++. 2) Microsoft has done a lackluster job of marketing
C++/CLI. 3) My feeling is that the hardcore C++ programming shop could
care less about .Net, and furthermore, I think there is quite some
resistance about a .Net extended language of C++. Just read some of the
newsgroups like comp.lang.c++ or comp.lang.c++.m oderated.

Its sad to see this, given all the investment put into C++/CLI, as well
as the fact that two of my favorite C++ authors, namely Stan Lippman and
Herb Sutter, put a lot of work into this, yet it seems the marketplace
is ignorant of, and maybe even resistent to it.

But I think C++/CLI may wither away, or comprise a very small niche. I
think the best thing to do is either stick with C#/.Net (or vb.net) if
your going to do Windows now and in the future, and for native C++,
either work as a maintence programmer if your on the Windows platform,
or move to a Unix/Linux environment where most of the new and cutting
edge stuff involving C++, as well as C is going on.

-Don Kim
Mar 2 '06
81 4475
>Im currently migrating our application from C/C++/MFC to C++\CLI.

Why?

Dave
Mar 6 '06 #21
Good question

#1 They are paying me to do it :-)

#2 Its a calculator engine working with very sensitive data that is to
be made available on the web.
There is now a demand to run it in 'safe' mode. So its for
security reasons.

Although performance is also very important to us. This is hard to
gauge without actually having a .NET version to do some benchmarks.
But im not seeing anything unduly slow at the moment.

Another reason is using the MONO platform for UNIX it should easily
port to UNIX. so opening up new potential customers there.
After all its is a VM, designed to compete with Java, ultimately they
must be planning for it to run on other platforms ?

Mar 6 '06 #22
>#1 They are paying me to do it :-)

Always a very good reason :)
#2 Its a calculator engine working with very sensitive data that is to
be made available on the web.
There is now a demand to run it in 'safe' mode. So its for
security reasons.
OK, so you probably do have a reasonable technical argument for going
this way.
Another reason is using the MONO platform for UNIX it should easily
port to UNIX.
...
After all its is a VM, designed to compete with Java, ultimately they
must be planning for it to run on other platforms ?


Hmm, maybe. This is MS you're talking about. Have you tried this?

Dave
Mar 6 '06 #23
Don Kim wrote:
Alex Blekhman wrote:
I hope we will see something in near future. I can see
that job market requires C#/.NET much more frequently
than C++. All these coders are doing something, isn't it?


I don't know why discussions of programming languages and
frameworks always digress into which is better or more
popular. *SIGH* Visual Basic classic had far more
programmers than Visual C++ ones, yet it does not mean it
was better (on the contrary, VB encouraged bad
programming habits, and was terrible at scaling above
small applications).


I'm sorry if I contributed a little bit of flame here. What
I'm trying to say is that besides technical reasons (which
are discussed most by developers) there are economical ones,
too. Quite often developers argue about merits of
language/technology and forget to consider economical
implications. Technologies like former VB and .NET/Java are
not there because of trendiness or fashion. Software
industry grows; it requires more developer, faster
development cycle and more complex software. At some point
it's impossible (or not worthwhile) to gain new qualities
with older/expensive tools.

Take as example textile industry. Hundreds years ago textile
was one of leading product of western world. Then industry
advanced and textile production became much cheaper. At the
same time it required more people, however their tasks were
much less advanced and required less training. At some day
it moved to Asia and Latin America; otherwise it wasn't
worthwhile. However, textile machines are still developed
and produced mostly in western countries.

The same process happens in software industry now. All
spadework goes to India, China and other countries where
coders are cheaper. However, as you already noticed, in
western countries, criteria for developers become more
demanding. This is natural process for any industry.
Software is not exception. Carefully handcrafted C++ code
can be as piece of art as finest French lace. However, there
are no skilled developers enough to make hand crafted C++
code for mass production. We can delude ourselves that C++
coders are "elite" while VB/.NET are "grunts" and all
"genuine quality" software should be developed by elite. The
industry needs more software and faster. It's not
economically viable to develop all of it with expensive
means.
Mar 6 '06 #24
> I mean applications like word processors, image editors,
CD/DVD burning software, etc.
Sorry, but I dissagree ;) There were good reasons these applications
were never written in VB or Java, and the same reasons hold today for
..NET
However, I reckon your application is some CAD and/or
scientific software. Regular e-mail client or accounting
application does not require such engineering effort.


Machine translation has nothing to do with CAD, it simply means
"automatic translation" or "computer translation" - try to google for
it if you are interested. As for e-mail clients, sure .NET would be
fine, except that there are so many existing e-mail clients already.
For accounting, I have seen the trend to move from general purpose
programming languages to specialized environments like Axapta or SAP.

Mar 6 '06 #25
>>The same process happens in software industry now. All
spadework goes to India, China and other countries where
coders are cheaper.


So is this the fate for all coding in the western world,
it is to be farmed out much cheaper to third world countries?
What are we to do?

Why do some companies take this route and others not?

I was recently talking to someone on the 'Essential C++\CLI" course
recently run in London of which there was only 10 people.
Anyhow, his company employ some indian programmers to maintain the old
MFC code, as they cannot get them cheap enough here.
But the indian programmers do not want to work on MFC either, they want
also to exclusively use the latest and greatest... The staff there keep
leaving and wage inflation is approx 15% pa.

Mar 6 '06 #26
> I mean applications like word processors, image editors,
CD/DVD burning software, etc..


Well, we will agree to dissagree on this :) I just don't see .NET
*ever* gaining any significant role in these areas.

Mar 6 '06 #27
>After all its is a VM, designed to compete with Java, ultimately they
must be planning for it to run on other platforms ?


Hmm, maybe. This is MS you're talking about. Have you tried this?


No not yet. Sounds good in theory though.

So is the VM part of .NET only virtual on top of Windows?

Mar 6 '06 #28
Hi David,

I moved away from using VC6 for a couple of reasons probably #1 is my
"feeling" was that MSFT would stop supporting it. It still is what it is,
of course, so that doesn't change, but I'd like my resume to be more up to
data :o)

I've found that once I got used to the new interface in VS 7.1 and 8.0 I
actually like it better. I still miss ClassWizard, but I've learned to do
more things manually.

I don't really need great language conformance, I just need to create
Windows programs quickly that work. However, I am happy that there are
rocket scientists at MSFT making sure we are growing in that direction for
the inevevitable time when I will need something new.

The price seems to be creeping up as well, but since I live in this every
day it's easy enough, for me, to justify the cost. It's nice seeing the one
year moritorium on paying for the Express version.

Tom

"David Lowndes" <Da****@example .invalid> wrote in message
news:dv******** *************** *********@4ax.c om...
Im currently migrating our application from C/C++/MFC to C++\CLI.


Why?

Dave

Mar 6 '06 #29
Herby wrote:
After all its is a VM, designed to compete with Java, ultimately they
must be planning for it to run on other platforms ?


Hmm, maybe. This is MS you're talking about. Have you tried this?


No not yet. Sounds good in theory though.

So is the VM part of .NET only virtual on top of Windows?


In theory, anyone can implement the CLI on whatever platform they choose
(witness Mono and dotGNU). In practice, there's quite a bit of the .NET
framework, including all C++/CLI support, that goes beyond what's in the
ECMA specs.

I'm not saying you won't ever see a CLI implementation on another platform
that supports C++/CLI - I believe you will eventually. But I strongly
suspect that it won't be this year. Or next.

-cd
Mar 6 '06 #30

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

Similar topics

175
11552
by: Sai Hertz And Control Systems | last post by:
Dear all, Their was a huge rore about MySQL recently for something in java functions now theirs one more http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/News-5.0.x.html Does this concern anyone. What I think is PostgreSQL would have less USP's (Uniqe Selling Points
14
2100
by: ccdetail | last post by:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.htm?tiobe_index Python is the 7th most commonly used language, up from 8th. The only one gaining ground besides VB in the top 10. We're glad, our app is written in python. It's free at http://pnk.com and it is a web timesheet for project accounting
0
9903
marktang
by: marktang | last post by:
ONU (Optical Network Unit) is one of the key components for providing high-speed Internet services. Its primary function is to act as an endpoint device located at the user's premises. However, people are often confused as to whether an ONU can Work As a Router. In this blog post, we’ll explore What is ONU, What Is Router, ONU & Router’s main usage, and What is the difference between ONU and Router. Let’s take a closer look ! Part I. Meaning of...
0
9754
by: Hystou | last post by:
Most computers default to English, but sometimes we require a different language, especially when relocating. Forgot to request a specific language before your computer shipped? No problem! You can effortlessly switch the default language on Windows 10 without reinstalling. I'll walk you through it. First, let's disable language synchronization. With a Microsoft account, language settings sync across devices. To prevent any complications,...
0
10692
jinu1996
by: jinu1996 | last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven tapestry of website design and digital marketing. It's not merely about having a website; it's about crafting an immersive digital experience that captivates audiences and drives business growth. The Art of Business Website Design Your website is...
1
10767
by: Hystou | last post by:
Overview: Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows Update option using the Control Panel or Settings app; it automatically checks for updates and installs any it finds, whether you like it or not. For most users, this new feature is actually very convenient. If you want to control the update process,...
1
7927
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM). In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules. He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms. Adolph will...
0
5754
by: TSSRALBI | last post by:
Hello I'm a network technician in training and I need your help. I am currently learning how to create and manage the different types of VPNs and I have a question about LAN-to-LAN VPNs. The last exercise I practiced was to create a LAN-to-LAN VPN between two Pfsense firewalls, by using IPSEC protocols. I succeeded, with both firewalls in the same network. But I'm wondering if it's possible to do the same thing, with 2 Pfsense firewalls...
0
5952
by: adsilva | last post by:
A Windows Forms form does not have the event Unload, like VB6. What one acts like?
1
4567
by: 6302768590 | last post by:
Hai team i want code for transfer the data from one system to another through IP address by using C# our system has to for every 5mins then we have to update the data what the data is updated we have to send another system
2
4168
muto222
by: muto222 | last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.

By using Bytes.com and it's services, you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

To disable or enable advertisements and analytics tracking please visit the manage ads & tracking page.