I am wondering if it is feasible to use .NET for applications that have to
be very fast. We have a few applications that are blazingly fast, written
in Borland C++ using Borland C++ Builder. We would like to port over to
..NET, but some of the test models we have developed are MUCH, MUCH slower
than it's Borland counterpart. Is this due to the .NET Framework and the
JIT? Or is it something we should be looking for in the project settings
and/or compiler settings? The performance decrease is about two-fold.
--
TGF
11  2119 
"TGF" <tf***@engr.uco nn.edu[remove brackets]> wrote in message
news:e7******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl... I am wondering if it is feasible to use .NET for applications that have to
be very fast. We have a few applications that are blazingly fast, written
in Borland C++ using Borland C++ Builder. We would like to port over to
.NET, but some of the test models we have developed are MUCH, MUCH slower
than it's Borland counterpart. Is this due to the .NET Framework and the
JIT? Or is it something we should be looking for in the project settings
and/or compiler settings? The performance decrease is about two-fold.
--
TGF
What kind of applications are we talking about? Windows, console, etc.?
You are aware that you aren't limited to .NET Framework-dependent
application types in Visual Studio .NET, correct? IOW, you can create
straight Windows API applications, or MFC applications, or straight console
applications. You may be comparing apples to oranges.
--
Peter - [MVP - Academic]
Peter,
I am talking about a .NET Windows Form C++ Application using the managed
extensions. Specifically, I have a RichTextBox component that is to be
updated, line by line very very quickly. In the Borland C++ Builder app I
have created, it is blindingly fast (this is good). In the .NET Windows
Forms application, it is painfully slow. The code is pretty much the same,
albeit compensating for the managed extensions in .NET. Is this slowdown to
be expected (due to the .NET framework), or am I missing something?
-TGF
"Peter van der Goes" <p_**********@m ars.cox.net> wrote in message
news:u%******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. ..
"TGF" <tf***@engr.uco nn.edu[remove brackets]> wrote in message
news:e7******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl... I am wondering if it is feasible to use .NET for applications that have
to be very fast. We have a few applications that are blazingly fast,
written in Borland C++ using Borland C++ Builder. We would like to port over to
.NET, but some of the test models we have developed are MUCH, MUCH
slower than it's Borland counterpart. Is this due to the .NET Framework and
the JIT? Or is it something we should be looking for in the project
settings and/or compiler settings? The performance decrease is about two-fold.
--
TGF
What kind of applications are we talking about? Windows, console, etc.?
You are aware that you aren't limited to .NET Framework-dependent
application types in Visual Studio .NET, correct? IOW, you can create
straight Windows API applications, or MFC applications, or straight
console applications. You may be comparing apples to oranges.
--
Peter - [MVP - Academic]
"TGF" <tf***@engr.uco nn.edu[remove brackets]> wrote in message
news:O0******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl... Peter,
I am talking about a .NET Windows Form C++ Application using the
managed extensions. Specifically, I have a RichTextBox component that is to be
updated, line by line very very quickly. In the Borland C++ Builder app I
have created, it is blindingly fast (this is good). In the .NET Windows
Forms application, it is painfully slow. The code is pretty much the
same, albeit compensating for the managed extensions in .NET. Is this slowdown
to be expected (due to the .NET framework), or am I missing something?
-TGF
I'm still confused. You're building a Visual Studio .NET 2003 C++ Windows
Form template application, and comparing it to what type of application
produced in Borland C++ Builder? What technology does the Borland app
employ? OWL? MFC? API calls?
Regardless, I'm probably not the right person to address your question, as
all I can provide is limited, anecdotal evidence of a few test WinForm apps
that employ textboxes, single and multi-line, rich text boxes, list boxes,
etc that don't show any noticeable performance deteriorations in comparison
to earlier examples using MFC. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but
someone would have to look at exactly what is going on in your application
to provide a meaningful response.
Hopefully, someone else with more specific experience will jump into the
thread.
--
*************** *************** *************** *************** **********
** All opinions are mine alone.Do not attribute elsewhere!
*************** *************** *************** *************** **********
** Peter van der Goes, Professor, Computers & Information Technology
** Rose State College
*************** ******** Contact *************** *************** ******
** Office e-mail: pv**@rose.edu
** Home e-mail: p_**********@co x.net
** Web Page: http://www.rose.edu/Faculty/pvan/index.htm
*************** *************** *************** *************** **********
AFAIK, Windows Forms (at least parts of System.Drawing) don't get hardware
accelleration. This is based on old information, so it might be incorrect
:S.
Are you using the same control in both scenarios? Are you sure you don't
have any optmization code in your Borland project that's helping out?
For updating a control, I'd recommend disabling repainting of it, update it,
and then repaint it. Making it perform multiple repaints in rapid
succession can be rather slow.
-mike
MVP
"TGF" <tf***@engr.uco nn.edu[remove brackets]> wrote in message
news:O0******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl... Peter,
I am talking about a .NET Windows Form C++ Application using the
managed extensions. Specifically, I have a RichTextBox component that is to be
updated, line by line very very quickly. In the Borland C++ Builder app I
have created, it is blindingly fast (this is good). In the .NET Windows
Forms application, it is painfully slow. The code is pretty much the
same, albeit compensating for the managed extensions in .NET. Is this slowdown
to be expected (due to the .NET framework), or am I missing something?
-TGF
"Peter van der Goes" <p_**********@m ars.cox.net> wrote in message
news:u%******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. ..
"TGF" <tf***@engr.uco nn.edu[remove brackets]> wrote in message
news:e7******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl... I am wondering if it is feasible to use .NET for applications that
have to be very fast. We have a few applications that are blazingly fast, written in Borland C++ using Borland C++ Builder. We would like to port over
to .NET, but some of the test models we have developed are MUCH, MUCH
slower than it's Borland counterpart. Is this due to the .NET Framework and the JIT? Or is it something we should be looking for in the project settings and/or compiler settings? The performance decrease is about two-fold.
--
TGF
What kind of applications are we talking about? Windows, console, etc.?
You are aware that you aren't limited to .NET Framework-dependent
application types in Visual Studio .NET, correct? IOW, you can create
straight Windows API applications, or MFC applications, or straight
console applications. You may be comparing apples to oranges.
--
Peter - [MVP - Academic]
"Michael Giagnocavo [MVP]" <mg*******@Atre vido.net> wrote in message
news:u$******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. .. AFAIK, Windows Forms (at least parts of System.Drawing) don't get hardware
accelleration. This is based on old information, so it might be incorrect
:S.
Are you using the same control in both scenarios? Are you sure you don't
have any optmization code in your Borland project that's helping out?
For updating a control, I'd recommend disabling repainting of it, update
it, and then repaint it. Making it perform multiple repaints in rapid
succession can be rather slow.
-mike
MVP
Mike, perhaps you can clear something up for me.
I was under the impression that the OP was using the new Windows Form
Application (.NET)template in VS.NET 2003 and comparing the "slowness" of it
to a similar project built in Borland C++ Builder. I did a little research
on C++ Builder, and did not see any indication that it supports the .NET
framework (at least not so stated on the Borland product page), let alone
feature an analog to the Windows Form (.NET) template? That's why I wanted
the OP to tell us if he was using OWL, MFC or whatever. Am I out in left
field on this?
Thanks in advance.
I don't know much about Borlands solutions either (but I do believe they
have some .NET offering). I do know that Windows Forms wraps some common
controls with a layer of managed code. I guess I'm seconding your question
about the actual environment to make sure this is an apples to apples
comparison.
-mike
MVP
"Peter van der Goes" <p_**********@m ars.cox.net> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP11.phx.gbl. ..
"Michael Giagnocavo [MVP]" <mg*******@Atre vido.net> wrote in message
news:u$******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. .. AFAIK, Windows Forms (at least parts of System.Drawing) don't get
hardware accelleration. This is based on old information, so it might be
incorrect :S.
Are you using the same control in both scenarios? Are you sure you
don't have any optmization code in your Borland project that's helping out?
For updating a control, I'd recommend disabling repainting of it, update it, and then repaint it. Making it perform multiple repaints in rapid
succession can be rather slow.
-mike
MVP
Mike, perhaps you can clear something up for me.
I was under the impression that the OP was using the new Windows Form
Application (.NET)template in VS.NET 2003 and comparing the "slowness" of
it to a similar project built in Borland C++ Builder. I did a little research
on C++ Builder, and did not see any indication that it supports the .NET
framework (at least not so stated on the Borland product page), let alone
feature an analog to the Windows Form (.NET) template? That's why I
wanted the OP to tell us if he was using OWL, MFC or whatever. Am I out in left
field on this?
Thanks in advance.
Guys:
The Borland environment I was using is basically a "Non .NET" forms
based IDE. The support for form in Borland Builder seems to be much better.
The Borland classes that make it possible are basically wrappers around MS
MFC's. Not my choice to switch to .NET, but have to go with it nonetheless.
It seems maybe because of the .NET framework (MSIL use), the RichTextBox
component is not able to AppendText() as quickly as it's MFC counterpart.
Is this the case that you guys see? I did a test with a Timer component
calling a Tick event every 1ms. This is a bare bones form that I did the
test on. The RichTextBox was able to do about 100 lines a second compared
to about 500 lines a second using Borland C++ Builder.
-TGF
"Michael Giagnocavo [MVP]" <mg*******@Atre vido.net> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. .. I don't know much about Borlands solutions either (but I do believe they
have some .NET offering). I do know that Windows Forms wraps some common
controls with a layer of managed code. I guess I'm seconding your
question about the actual environment to make sure this is an apples to apples
comparison.
-mike
MVP
"Peter van der Goes" <p_**********@m ars.cox.net> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP11.phx.gbl. ..
"Michael Giagnocavo [MVP]" <mg*******@Atre vido.net> wrote in message
news:u$******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. .. AFAIK, Windows Forms (at least parts of System.Drawing) don't get hardware accelleration. This is based on old information, so it might be incorrect :S.
Are you using the same control in both scenarios? Are you sure you don't have any optmization code in your Borland project that's helping out?
For updating a control, I'd recommend disabling repainting of it,
update it, and then repaint it. Making it perform multiple repaints in rapid
succession can be rather slow.
-mike
MVP
Mike, perhaps you can clear something up for me.
I was under the impression that the OP was using the new Windows Form
Application (.NET)template in VS.NET 2003 and comparing the "slowness"
of it to a similar project built in Borland C++ Builder. I did a little
research on C++ Builder, and did not see any indication that it supports the .NET
framework (at least not so stated on the Borland product page), let
alone feature an analog to the Windows Form (.NET) template? That's why I
wanted the OP to tell us if he was using OWL, MFC or whatever. Am I out in left
field on this?
Thanks in advance.
Did you turn off painting while updating?
-mike
MVP
"TGF" <tf***@engr.uco nn.edu[remove brackets]> wrote in message
news:uc******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl... Guys:
The Borland environment I was using is basically a "Non .NET" forms
based IDE. The support for form in Borland Builder seems to be much
better. The Borland classes that make it possible are basically wrappers around MS
MFC's. Not my choice to switch to .NET, but have to go with it
nonetheless. It seems maybe because of the .NET framework (MSIL use), the RichTextBox
component is not able to AppendText() as quickly as it's MFC counterpart.
Is this the case that you guys see? I did a test with a Timer component
calling a Tick event every 1ms. This is a bare bones form that I did the
test on. The RichTextBox was able to do about 100 lines a second compared
to about 500 lines a second using Borland C++ Builder.
-TGF
"Michael Giagnocavo [MVP]" <mg*******@Atre vido.net> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. .. I don't know much about Borlands solutions either (but I do believe they
have some .NET offering). I do know that Windows Forms wraps some
common controls with a layer of managed code. I guess I'm seconding your
question about the actual environment to make sure this is an apples to apples
comparison.
-mike
MVP
"Peter van der Goes" <p_**********@m ars.cox.net> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP11.phx.gbl. ..
"Michael Giagnocavo [MVP]" <mg*******@Atre vido.net> wrote in message
news:u$******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. ..
> AFAIK, Windows Forms (at least parts of System.Drawing) don't get
hardware > accelleration. This is based on old information, so it might be
incorrect > :S.
>
> Are you using the same control in both scenarios? Are you sure you
don't > have any optmization code in your Borland project that's helping
out? >
> For updating a control, I'd recommend disabling repainting of it,
update it,
> and then repaint it. Making it perform multiple repaints in rapid
> succession can be rather slow.
>
> -mike
> MVP
>
Mike, perhaps you can clear something up for me.
I was under the impression that the OP was using the new Windows Form
Application (.NET)template in VS.NET 2003 and comparing the "slowness" of it to a similar project built in Borland C++ Builder. I did a little
research on C++ Builder, and did not see any indication that it supports the
..NET framework (at least not so stated on the Borland product page), let alone feature an analog to the Windows Form (.NET) template? That's why I
wanted the OP to tell us if he was using OWL, MFC or whatever. Am I out in
left field on this?
Thanks in advance.
No, how do I do that?
-TGF
"Michael Giagnocavo [MVP]" <mg*******@Atre vido.net> wrote in message
news:Ow******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl... Did you turn off painting while updating?
-mike
MVP
"TGF" <tf***@engr.uco nn.edu[remove brackets]> wrote in message
news:uc******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl... Guys:
The Borland environment I was using is basically a "Non .NET" forms
based IDE. The support for form in Borland Builder seems to be much
better. The Borland classes that make it possible are basically wrappers around
MS MFC's. Not my choice to switch to .NET, but have to go with it
nonetheless. It seems maybe because of the .NET framework (MSIL use), the RichTextBox
component is not able to AppendText() as quickly as it's MFC
counterpart. Is this the case that you guys see? I did a test with a Timer component
calling a Tick event every 1ms. This is a bare bones form that I did
the test on. The RichTextBox was able to do about 100 lines a second
compared to about 500 lines a second using Borland C++ Builder.
-TGF
"Michael Giagnocavo [MVP]" <mg*******@Atre vido.net> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. .. I don't know much about Borlands solutions either (but I do believe
they have some .NET offering). I do know that Windows Forms wraps some common controls with a layer of managed code. I guess I'm seconding your
question about the actual environment to make sure this is an apples to apples
comparison.
-mike
MVP
"Peter van der Goes" <p_**********@m ars.cox.net> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP11.phx.gbl. ..
>
> "Michael Giagnocavo [MVP]" <mg*******@Atre vido.net> wrote in message
> news:u$******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. ..
> > AFAIK, Windows Forms (at least parts of System.Drawing) don't get
hardware
> > accelleration. This is based on old information, so it might be
incorrect
> > :S.
> >
> > Are you using the same control in both scenarios? Are you sure
you don't
> > have any optmization code in your Borland project that's helping out? > >
> > For updating a control, I'd recommend disabling repainting of it,
update > it,
> > and then repaint it. Making it perform multiple repaints in rapid
> > succession can be rather slow.
> >
> > -mike
> > MVP
> >
> Mike, perhaps you can clear something up for me.
> I was under the impression that the OP was using the new Windows
Form > Application (.NET)template in VS.NET 2003 and comparing the
"slowness" of it
> to a similar project built in Borland C++ Builder. I did a little
research > on C++ Builder, and did not see any indication that it supports the
.NET > framework (at least not so stated on the Borland product page), let
alone > feature an analog to the Windows Form (.NET) template? That's why I
wanted
> the OP to tell us if he was using OWL, MFC or whatever. Am I out in left > field on this?
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
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