Reasons for a 3-tier achitecture for Web? Why

[nospam]

Reasons for a 3-tier achitecture for the WEB?
(NOTE: I said, WEB, NOT WINDOWS.

DON'T shoot your mouth off if you don't understand the difference.)

I hear only one reason and that's to switch a database from SQL Server to
Oracle or DB2 or vice versa... and that's it.... And a lot of these
enterprises don't need it as they already know what database they are going
to use and they don't plan on switching in and out database in the first
place, NOR can they afford to in the first place

Nobody switches databases everyday yet Microsoft and MVP's are recommending
these so called best practices for every single .NET implementation for the
enterprise or the mom and pop....Sort of like Windows Advanced Server and
Windows Server....every body's got to have Advanced server on their
LAPTOP.....

I mean come on. Let Microsoft fix their own stuff FIRST before recommending
any best practices.

Also see no reason to have a business logic tier as that can be easily
contained in the code behind.

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
I would really like to know, who's idea it was to have 3-tier architecture
for .NET Web Pages. All I see is a carry over of practices from DNA using
COM and .asp pages.....

3-tier is using the same OLD broken tools when a new technology, .NET, that
has better and more simplier ways of doing things.

I say there is some hidden motive (like job security) for making things more
complicated and LESS performing when using 3-Tier or N-Tier.

There are a LOT of mind-numb robot MVP's and Microsoft employees who never
question if a particular and well-entrenched way is the best way.......

It's been 2 years and Mr. Bill is still saying things are going slow.....I
wonder why......

[Dmitriy Lapshin [C# / .NET MVP]]

Hi,

Multi-tier architectures proved to be reasonable for considerably big
projects where they facilitate maintenance and further development (have you
ever tried to debug a huge code-behind class with thousands of lines of
code?).

It is just easier (well, for some of us, at least :-) to work with logically
separated parts of code - this one works with the database, this one handles
business rules and that one renders user interface.

By the way, the "business logic" tier, in my opinion, is reasonable only
when there are many complex business rules to enforce. This tier can be
omitted for web sites that merely store and display data, but do not perform
any sophisticated data processing.

As for switching the databases...wel l..I would agree that it happens with
very low probability, but if that happens and all your database code is
spread across the code behind - long boring hours of monkey job are
guaranteed.

--
Dmitriy Lapshin [C# / .NET MVP]
X-Unity Unit Testing and Integration Environment
http://x-unity.miik.com.ua
Deliver reliable .NET software

"nospam" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:#l******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...

Reasons for a 3-tier achitecture for the WEB?
(NOTE: I said, WEB, NOT WINDOWS.

DON'T shoot your mouth off if you don't understand the difference.)

I hear only one reason and that's to switch a database from SQL Server to
Oracle or DB2 or vice versa... and that's it.... And a lot of these
enterprises don't need it as they already know what database they are going to use and they don't plan on switching in and out database in the first
place, NOR can they afford to in the first place

Nobody switches databases everyday yet Microsoft and MVP's are recommending these so called best practices for every single .NET implementation for the enterprise or the mom and pop....Sort of like Windows Advanced Server and
Windows Server....every body's got to have Advanced server on their
LAPTOP.....

I mean come on. Let Microsoft fix their own stuff FIRST before recommending any best practices.

Also see no reason to have a business logic tier as that can be easily
contained in the code behind.

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
I would really like to know, who's idea it was to have 3-tier architecture
for .NET Web Pages. All I see is a carry over of practices from DNA using
COM and .asp pages.....

3-tier is using the same OLD broken tools when a new technology, .NET, that has better and more simplier ways of doing things.

I say there is some hidden motive (like job security) for making things more complicated and LESS performing when using 3-Tier or N-Tier.

There are a LOT of mind-numb robot MVP's and Microsoft employees who never
question if a particular and well-entrenched way is the best way.......

It's been 2 years and Mr. Bill is still saying things are going slow.....I
wonder why......

[nhoel]

"nospam" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:e8******** ******@tk2msftn gp13.phx.gbl...

comments inline below
"nhoel" <no*****@nomail .com> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP09.phx.gbl. ..

If you had sold a product to companies, you'll easily find out that the
database implementation is not always as you had planned. The same product

can be be deployed in different companies using different RDBMS products
(well, if you don't want to, you've just limited yourself to a few

clients).

Not to mention those "Mom and Pop" shops that can only afford access, and

later on outgrow the system and would demand a robust RDBMS. Well, that's one reason. In some cases (specially tracing and logging), the persistent store is not always a database. It can be a flat file, your email service or logging objects in windows. Wouldn't you rather write a design where

you

can just "switch" your application to use any of these objects that logs
information differently. I know you're thinking, why in the world would

you

choose to log information in a flat file when you have a database or
whatever. Depending on who you are... in today's distributed
envinronments, technical support can be in far flung India while the

program

is running in Iraq. Are you going to send the entire database image to

them

so they can analyze a problem that occurred in the last 5 minutes? I can think of so many reasons why you should separate your "Data Layer" from

the

other "Layers."

still weak arguments....FL AT FILE...come ON? TO INDIA? EXCUSE

me...that's NO reason.
Maybe this is the reason why you're looking for attention. Your poor
methodologies are chasing your clients away from you and your employer finds
your work weak stuff!!! In case you haven't noticed, most of the IT jobs
are going to India and South East Asia.
Backup the database and zip it up and send it over there...what's the
difference?
These points are simply Weird and don't occur in real life.
Are you going to zip up a database that's over 300 GB worth of information.
It shows how poor your experience is when it comes to "BIG" applications.
Mom and Pop on access....just have them install MSDE then?....the amount of effort to SWITCH is total NONSENSE as you could have just had them switch to MSDE.......They , the client are happy and so are you.
You think they'd be able to easily use MSDE for their own internal reasons
where they decide not use your help? Most of the mom and pop shops I know
create their own "simple" applications based on the files that you give
them.
Getting a Mom and Pop to buy your enterprise app is simply improbable as
they can't afford it....YET, if they could afford it, why would they use
access?
If you know how much it costs to get MS SQL server, you'd probably
understand why they want to save every way they can.

I mean come on. Let Microsoft fix their own stuff FIRST before recommending

any best practices.

I agree on this one but this does not have any bearing on your question of "3 Tier Architecture."

Also see no reason to have a business logic tier as that can be easily
contained in the code behind.

That's because you're probably narrow minded that your software engineering
background needs an overhaul. Soon, you'd be claiming, what's the use of
Object Oriented Programming. Compare to straight procedural language,
they're slow. But, that's you...

Again, imagine an application where you have to write an interface for

PDA's

and full browser like I.E. Coding the business rules for pages that

supply

information in a PDA and another for I.E. is just too much to do. I don't know about you, but I would rather spend more time upgrading my system

than

doing interfaces (with built in business rules) so many times, depending

on

how many client interfaces I have to deal with. Just consider if you have to write a "Touch Tone" interface to your application as well.

I would like to know if anyone BUYS stuff off of a PDA like they do a Web
Site shopping cart.

Hey, I do even worse with my mobile phone. I check movie times in it. It's
probable that you are not that "connected" and versed with today's
technology.
Can you really shop around and surf with a PDA....just look at how small the screen is....people have enough trouble with 640x-480 now, I can't imagine
what it would be like for a PDA.

PDA's and tablets are now being used in many modern hospitals. They allow
patients to fill in forms from tablets. Doctors are hooked up to wireless
networks and their PDA's work as an extra tool to keep on top of things.
HECK, I use a PDA too and have some of my applications expose interfaces in
such devices. So at least, there's one who can shop around or surf with a
PDA.
Just any device can display information doesn't mean it's going to have or
need a set of complex business rules in the first place. ANYTHING that
complex, you got to ask yourself if the customer is going to really buy
something OR spend time filling out a form on a PDA...YIKES!

Second, it complete poor design practice to have the same set of business
rules as that would be a single point of failure anyway...and the PDA
business requirements are going to be TOTALLY different then a Web Site's

It may be a single point of failure to the uneducated. But once QA has been
done, it's guaranteed to work anywhere. If you put the same logic in every
page you have, if the business rule is false... good luck changing it all
over the place. And your single point of failure becomes "multiple" points
of failure.

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
I would really like to know, who's idea it was to have 3-tier architecture for .NET Web Pages. All I see is a carry over of practices from DNA using COM and .asp pages.....

This idea was definitely not from Microsoft. But the idea behind n-tier
architecture is code reuse. Unless, you haven't heard of it.
OK, well who was it from then if not Microsoft?

Definitely not yours....

3-tier is using the same OLD broken tools when a new technology, .NET, that

has better and more simplier ways of doing things.

N-Tier development is an architectural design that allows a development

team

to work together by establishing standards before the first code is ever
written. That way, you can avoid the saying, "Too many chefs spoils the
broth."

2-Tier can easily do this....Interne t and Intranet web sites have hundreds
of web pages where each set of web pages belong to a departments.
With N-Tier, you could like say have one module, but it needs to worked on
two different divisions. Say if it's the database module....what happens

if two people need access to the same time?

Even if it was 2-Tier, you'd still have to stop the other division from
overwriting the changes of the other one. This is why code repositories are
used. Unless, then again... you have had no experience using them. In
case you haven't, I suggest you read about Microsoft Visual Sourcesafe...
or if you're brave enough, use CVS. Although, you should worry more about
how you're going to control your code's logic once the requirements of your
client (assuming you still have one) changes.

I say there is some hidden motive (like job security) for making

things

more

complicated and LESS performing when using 3-Tier or N-Tier.

Even in non n-tier designs, Job security has always been a motive. It

isn't

even hidden anymore. Don't you think so? I wonder why so many people are still in denial that job security is a goal.

There are a LOT of mind-numb robot MVP's and Microsoft employees who never question if a particular and well-entrenched way is the best

way.......

That's because it's a proven "practice." I don't even call it a design
anymore. Code behind leads to too much duplicate code all over the
application. But since you prefer to do things the long way... good

luck investing more time in writing a simple "logon" screen. By the way, the
tools that you get out there to write "components " are based on the very
n-tier design that you don't agree with. Have you noticed that they work with almost every DB out there? I wonder why?

The only thing I see proven are the number of failed enterprise projects
like CRM and ERP.

CRM especially as they are always in the news getting sued for a failed
implementation.

That's probably because the developers were old school like you in those
failed projects.

ERP...well that takes at least a year of dev, and by that time, the
technology has changed.

That's probably because they wrote too much code like you did in your
applications and cannot reuse exisiting ones. Maybe they did reuse it but
in a more "pre-historic" way of cut and paste.
IF YOU notice, the POST said WEB, NOT WINDOWS.....Loo king at the TOOLS, like VS.NET are Windows apps that have a really long beta test and are updated
once a year....big difference here.


So? what's your point? Even in the same web application the same data can
be presented differently but the same business rules apply. A human
resources page might require information about the employee's personal stuff
and "salary." The payroll department might only be able to edit the
"salary." Both departments must still abide by the same rules of the
company even if information is shown using different web pages. Of course,
you can write the logic in both pages rather than encapsulating it in a
class and using that class to enforce the business rules. Doesn't the later
sound easier? As far as i'm concerned if my methods exceed 20 lines of
code, there's something wrong in my design.
It's been 2 years and Mr. Bill is still saying things are going slow.....I wonder why......

You know, there are other tools out there you can use, some are even

free...

but, they too have been centered on n-tier development. I suggest you try J2EE. You'll see the real power of n-Tier design. It's even amazing how they've put away with proprietary SQL code.

J2EE!!!! Aghhhh....have you looked at their code.....abstra ction after
abstraction after abstraction.... .YES, you are right, that's

N-TIER...where the "N" stands for "Not enough" Tiers....It's no wonder why J2EE is so slow and take forever to implement.


Yes I have looked into a J2EE code and coded some myself. I find some to be
pure genious and others not too bright. It's probably why you never decided
to expand on these technologies because yours might be the later.

[nospam]

INLINE BELOW
"Terje A. Bergesen" <te****@yahoo.c om> wrote in message
news:cd******** *************** **@posting.goog le.com...

"nospam" <[e-mail] > wrote in message news:<e8******* *******@tk2msft ngp13.phx.gbl>. ..

"nhoel" <no*****@nomail .com> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP09.phx.gbl. ..

...PMJI...but.. .

so they can analyze a problem that occurred in the last 5 minutes? I can think of so many reasons why you should separate your "Data Layer" from

the

other "Layers."

still weak arguments....FL AT FILE...come ON?

No, this is not at all a weak argument. When building an app you can
never know in advance what storage your clients will ask for. In my
experience you will find shops that mandate one particular (down to
the version and patch level) database and others who only care about
the total cost. The first may be Oracle (typically for large installs)
the second would be serviced well with PostrgreSQL or MySQL (if your
app can live within the limits of these).

Tying your business logic to a specific DB will make this highly
difficult.

NOPE, Oracle people ASK for J2EE First, not .NET
PostgreSQL and MySQL ask for PERL first, not .NET

So, your analysis is for the few and rare cases.......



...

These points are simply Weird and don't occur in real life.
Depends on your daily life I assume. They occur every day, with every
customer I talk to, in my life.

...

Getting a Mom and Pop to buy your enterprise app is simply improbable as
they can't afford it....YET,

Yes, now they can. .NET and J2EE (I see your disparaging comments later,
I'll deal with them there) allows this.

Again, imagine an application where you have to write an interface for
PDA's
...

I would like to know if anyone BUYS stuff off of a PDA like they do
a Web Site shopping cart.

Did you see the "imagine" part? Use your imagination. An enterprice app
developer will frequently find him self in a situation where he will be
asked to provide new DB connectivity, new vertical app connectivity and
new interfaces into his app. What if your customer has suppliers and
customers who agree to start doing business by exchanging XML docs? What
if your customer wants 1-800-MY-BIZZ access into the app you wrote?

IMAGINE???? SUN, IBM and MICROSOFT have been imagining for 3 or 5 years
with billions and billions of dollars and thousands upon thousands of
engineers and programmers. Contest after contest......NO THING.....

People get in a CAR to DRIVE, NOT SURF the .NET.

Had the thought ever occured to you that people want to get away from the
..NET once in a while....

TABLETS will easily take over PDA's as they can get a standard web
page.....PDA will always have a small screen and will always be hard to
use...... HECK, IF YOU want PROOF, switch your monitor back to 640x480 and
start surfing at that resolution...se e how long that lasts...... NOW, stick
that PDA in front of your eyes..is that even going to be near the 640x480
surfing experience....N O WAY.....

Second, it complete poor design practice to have the same set of
business rules as that would be a single point of failure anyway...
Eh, no. It would not be complete poor design. Having *one* set of
business rules in your app is something I think they teach in computers
101 these days. It makes 100% sense. I would be so strong-worded as
to say that *not* seperating business logic from presentation and
storage is complete idiocy.
This idea was definitely not from Microsoft. But the idea behind

n-tier architecture is code reuse. Unless, you haven't heard of it.

OK, well who was it from then if not Microsoft?

The 3-tier architecture was not dreamed up by Microsoft, it came about
from years and years of experience with 2-tier architectures and their
complete failure to work over time.

2-Tier can easily do this...

Not over time, this is why the sound idea of a 3-tiered architecture
was created. It was developed by people with years and years of
experience in the field, and solves the real problems they have been
facing over the past 30 or so years.

OMG!!!! NON-ANSWER......Jus t because you have 30 years of experience
doesn't give you the gift of innovation or creativity.

Most innovation comes from BEGINNERS, NEWBIES, who have ZIPPO
EXPERIENCE...Wh y? Cause they haven't been INDOCTRINATED or BRAIN WASHED
with the same old tired methods.

Let's run down the history of great inventors and see what is what and who
did what......

WHAT A STUPID ANSWER!!!!!

...

J2EE!!!! Aghhhh....have you looked at their code.....abstra ction after
abstraction after abstraction.... .YES, you are right, that's

N-TIER...where the "N" stands for "Not enough" Tiers....It's no wonder why J2EE is so slow and take forever to implement.

Well, it does appear that you have very little experience, and it also
seems you have very little software design and development education
and experience. J2EE apps are far from slow to develop, and if you know
what you do (i.e. don't have millions of Entity Beans accessed by the
remote clients) then they have excellent performance.

J2EE are slow to develop? in comparison to what, machine language or
assembly?

The only thing you have very little of, is the humility to admit that your
are completely wrong.

Typical arrogant J2EE / OOP programmer..... .


--
Terje

[nospam]

I want to add that the Windows OS (with thousand and thousand programmers
and software engineers who are supposedly the best of the best, and YEARS
and YEARS of man hours) STILL needs a weekly service pack.......

Oh, and the BIG Service Packs.....DON'T install them because THEY BREAK
already working systems....how many times has that happened and whose
architecture was that? Where is that QA team?

So, are the architects of n-tier development with 30+ years of experience,
the same people who produced these service packs?

'nough said

[nospam]

One other thing.

Resume OR Acronym Chest THUMPERS need to watch themselves very carefully or
else someone might knock those acronym chips off their shoulder.

"nospam" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. ..

I want to add that the Windows OS (with thousand and thousand programmers
and software engineers who are supposedly the best of the best, and YEARS
and YEARS of man hours) STILL needs a weekly service pack.......

Oh, and the BIG Service Packs.....DON'T install them because THEY BREAK
already working systems....how many times has that happened and whose
architecture was that? Where is that QA team?

So, are the architects of n-tier development with 30+ years of experience,
the same people who produced these service packs?

'nough said

[Jeff Levinson [mcsd]]

Also, there's one thing that you're missing - the service
oriented architecture. If you place code in the code
behind page, it can't be called from another process
without loading up the entire web page, transferring to
that site, etc. Using middle tier logic enables you to
hold common services for use across many applications.
It's not just all based on database issues.

Jeff Levinson

Author of "Building Client/Server Applications with
VB.NET: An Example Driven Approach"

-----Original Message-----
Reasons for a 3-tier achitecture for the WEB?
(NOTE: I said, WEB, NOT WINDOWS.

DON'T shoot your mouth off if you don't understand the difference.)
I hear only one reason and that's to switch a database from SQL Server toOracle or DB2 or vice versa... and that's it.... And a lot of theseenterprises don't need it as they already know what database they are goingto use and they don't plan on switching in and out database in the firstplace, NOR can they afford to in the first place

Nobody switches databases everyday yet Microsoft and MVP's are recommendingthese so called best practices for every single .NET implementation for theenterprise or the mom and pop....Sort of like Windows Advanced Server andWindows Server....every body's got to have Advanced server on theirLAPTOP.....

I mean come on. Let Microsoft fix their own stuff FIRST before recommendingany best practices.

Also see no reason to have a business logic tier as that can be easilycontained in the code behind.

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
I would really like to know, who's idea it was to have 3- tier architecturefor .NET Web Pages. All I see is a carry over of practices from DNA usingCOM and .asp pages.....

3-tier is using the same OLD broken tools when a new technology, .NET, thathas better and more simplier ways of doing things.

I say there is some hidden motive (like job security) for making things morecomplicated and LESS performing when using 3-Tier or N- Tier.
There are a LOT of mind-numb robot MVP's and Microsoft employees who neverquestion if a particular and well-entrenched way is the best way.......
It's been 2 years and Mr. Bill is still saying things are going slow.....Iwonder why......


.

[nospam]

MORE for the MS Architecture Team......THINK about what PEOPLE DO or NEED,
FIRST.

REALLY Stupid N-Tier PDA's Business use Logic....simila r to Apple's Newton
FAILURE

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,54580,00.html
BIG as a BRICK......Look at why the Palm took off, small and ONLY did what
people really NEEDED to be done.
NOW, based on that fiasco,
Most people use the Internet to RESEARCH PRICES BEFORE they BUY STUFF

.....PDA's with a 2 inch screen are NOT great for spending ONE or TWO HOURS
RESEARCHING PRICES!!!

I also don't buy things when a telemarketer calls me to on the cell
phone...so don't expect anyone to buy anything off a PDA as well when it
starts beeping either.

Last time I checked, no one watches a 2 hour DVD on one of those tiny 5"
portable DVD players.
I wonder WHY??????

Perhaps the words, "52 inch BIG SCREEN TV with SURROUND SOUND" might help
you arrogant N-Tier advocates.

Or, perhaps it's competing against the 15 inch LAPTOP will help on those
Long airplane trips....BUT REMEMBER...IT's an AIRPLANE TRIP... which is NOT
365 days a year.
To all your N-Tier resume THUMPERS, have a nice day.


"nospam" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:OL******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl...

One other thing.

Resume OR Acronym Chest THUMPERS need to watch themselves very carefully or else someone might knock those acronym chips off their shoulder.

"nospam" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. ..

I want to add that the Windows OS (with thousand and thousand programmers and software engineers who are supposedly the best of the best, and YEARS and YEARS of man hours) STILL needs a weekly service pack.......

Oh, and the BIG Service Packs.....DON'T install them because THEY BREAK
already working systems....how many times has that happened and whose
architecture was that? Where is that QA team?

So, are the architects of n-tier development with 30+ years of experience, the same people who produced these service packs?

'nough said

[nospam]

Just how many lines of code in a Code Behind Page are too much?

I have seen thousands and thousands of lines of code in a business tier as
well, I see no difference.

I would also like to know the actual business SET of rules where this would
happen for each and every single web page.

I can think of only a few cases(i.e. web pages) where this might be,

(1.) Placing an order for like a shopping cart
(2.) Credit approval
(3.) Insurance approval

But that's it.
I see no reason to put the (1) login or (2) search (3)Order Details or the
rest of the web site all in a business tier.

People talk about these "so-called" business rules as if it's in every
single page of the web site. yet that's not true and only increases the
complexity of the web site.

It is just easier (well, for some of us, at least :-) to work with logically separated parts of code - this one works with the database, this one handles business rules and that one renders user interface.
Can you explain, "just why is it easier"? Like is there some feature I am
missing? I coded more pages and sites than any of the top coders I know,
database, business logic and all and possibly more than all of them put
together.

What about all the time you spend trying to figure out grey area rules?
Like is this really in this layer or that layer, or is it really a little
bit of both. And then trying to Later figure out where it is 2 months from
now.

"Dmitriy Lapshin [C# / .NET MVP]" <x-****@no-spam-please.hotpop.c om> wrote
in message news:ec******** ******@tk2msftn gp13.phx.gbl... Hi,

Multi-tier architectures proved to be reasonable for considerably big
projects where they facilitate maintenance and further development (have you ever tried to debug a huge code-behind class with thousands of lines of
code?).

It is just easier (well, for some of us, at least :-) to work with logically separated parts of code - this one works with the database, this one handles business rules and that one renders user interface.

By the way, the "business logic" tier, in my opinion, is reasonable only
when there are many complex business rules to enforce. This tier can be
omitted for web sites that merely store and display data, but do not perform any sophisticated data processing.

As for switching the databases...wel l..I would agree that it happens with
very low probability, but if that happens and all your database code is
spread across the code behind - long boring hours of monkey job are
guaranteed.

--
Dmitriy Lapshin [C# / .NET MVP]
X-Unity Unit Testing and Integration Environment
http://x-unity.miik.com.ua
Deliver reliable .NET software

"nospam" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:#l******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...

Reasons for a 3-tier achitecture for the WEB?
(NOTE: I said, WEB, NOT WINDOWS.

DON'T shoot your mouth off if you don't understand the difference.)

I hear only one reason and that's to switch a database from SQL Server to Oracle or DB2 or vice versa... and that's it.... And a lot of these
enterprises don't need it as they already know what database they are

going

to use and they don't plan on switching in and out database in the first
place, NOR can they afford to in the first place

Nobody switches databases everyday yet Microsoft and MVP's are

recommending

these so called best practices for every single .NET implementation for

the

enterprise or the mom and pop....Sort of like Windows Advanced Server and Windows Server....every body's got to have Advanced server on their
LAPTOP.....

I mean come on. Let Microsoft fix their own stuff FIRST before

recommending

any best practices.

Also see no reason to have a business logic tier as that can be easily
contained in the code behind.

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
I would really like to know, who's idea it was to have 3-tier architecture for .NET Web Pages. All I see is a carry over of practices from DNA using COM and .asp pages.....

3-tier is using the same OLD broken tools when a new technology, .NET,

that

has better and more simplier ways of doing things.

I say there is some hidden motive (like job security) for making things

more

complicated and LESS performing when using 3-Tier or N-Tier.

There are a LOT of mind-numb robot MVP's and Microsoft employees who never question if a particular and well-entrenched way is the best way.......

It's been 2 years and Mr. Bill is still saying things are going slow.....I wonder why......

[nospam]

I can only think of one thing that is maybe common, and that's validation.

Other than that, there is nothing else.

Plus, there is a trade off on encapsulation as well and not to mention
reliabilty and maintenance.

Having code HERE and THERE amounts to "spaghetti" code.

Any custom code that is called more than once is also a single point of
failure and also each and every web page that uses it must be tested for
Quality Assurance. It seems like the time saved in hand coding changes are
easily lost in QA. Then is this myth about the "2 second maintenance
change" that never, ever is really 2 seconds.
"Jeff Levinson [mcsd]" <je***********@ comcast.net> wrote in message
news:03******** *************** *****@phx.gbl.. .

Also, there's one thing that you're missing - the service
oriented architecture. If you place code in the code
behind page, it can't be called from another process
without loading up the entire web page, transferring to
that site, etc. Using middle tier logic enables you to
hold common services for use across many applications.
It's not just all based on database issues.

Jeff Levinson

Author of "Building Client/Server Applications with
VB.NET: An Example Driven Approach"

-----Original Message-----
Reasons for a 3-tier achitecture for the WEB?
(NOTE: I said, WEB, NOT WINDOWS.

DON'T shoot your mouth off if you don't understand the

difference.)

I hear only one reason and that's to switch a database

from SQL Server to

Oracle or DB2 or vice versa... and that's it.... And a

lot of these

enterprises don't need it as they already know what

database they are going

to use and they don't plan on switching in and out

database in the first

place, NOR can they afford to in the first place

Nobody switches databases everyday yet Microsoft and

MVP's are recommending

these so called best practices for every single .NET

implementation for the

enterprise or the mom and pop....Sort of like Windows

Advanced Server and

Windows Server....every body's got to have Advanced

server on their

LAPTOP.....

I mean come on. Let Microsoft fix their own stuff FIRST

before recommending

any best practices.

Also see no reason to have a business logic tier as that

can be easily

contained in the code behind.

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
I would really like to know, who's idea it was to have 3-

tier architecture

for .NET Web Pages. All I see is a carry over of

practices from DNA using

COM and .asp pages.....

3-tier is using the same OLD broken tools when a new

technology, .NET, that

has better and more simplier ways of doing things.

I say there is some hidden motive (like job security)

for making things more

complicated and LESS performing when using 3-Tier or N-

Tier.

There are a LOT of mind-numb robot MVP's and Microsoft

employees who never

question if a particular and well-entrenched way is the

best way.......

It's been 2 years and Mr. Bill is still saying things

are going slow.....I

wonder why......


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