I very confused :)

[AAA]

I want to start programming in MS Visual C++. I understand that .NET is
required? Or do I have to get MSStudio to integrate my work into the NET
frame work? And any idea when VS 2005 is going to come out. Should I buy
MSC++ now and then up-grade? I need some real basic fatherly advice in
very some simple English. I programmed a little (basic) and took a C
course. Both were over 10 years ago and now I'm retired and want to
program as a hobby. Real simple English :)

Thank you in advance for your time.

[William DePalo [MVP VC++]]

"AAA" <ar*****@yahoo. com> wrote in message news:gNCMc.12$1 o.0@fed1read06. ..

I want to start programming in MS Visual C++.
Well, first you have to distinguish between a tool and a language.

C++ is language with an ISO standard. MS' version complies with very nearly
all (but not all to be sure) of the standard.

Standard C++ makes no mention of lots of important topics - like threading,
like modern user interfaces (Windows, X11, Aqua etc) etc. Those things are
always platform specific. There is some work going with libraries and such
which may have implementations on multiple platforms but that has its own
set of issues.
I understand that .NET is required?
Well, no! Just by the way .Net is an emerging standard with at least once
nascent effort to run on something other than Windows
(http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html). And while the latest
development tools from MS allow for .Net targeting, that is not a
requirement. The tools are equally adpept at building "native" Windows
applications.

There is a language called Managed C++, which extends C++ to the .Net
platform. An issue here is that the current syntax of the language is due
for a major update. VS2005 will support the new syntax while VS2003 does
not.
Or do I have to get MSStudio to integrate my work into the NET
frame work? And any idea when VS 2005 is going to come out.
Well, sometime next year. :-)
Should I buy MSC++ now and then up-grade?
No, download the beta.
I need some real basic fatherly advice in
very some simple English. I programmed a little (basic) and took a C
course. Both were over 10 years ago and now I'm retired and want to
program as a hobby. Real simple English :)
Here's the deal. For mere mortals picking up the language (standard though
it may be) and a specific platform is often too much to chew in one bite. If
you are retired and have lots of time and ambition you may be able to do it
but you _will_ work up a sweat. If you are like me you will lose some hair
in the process. :-)

I suggest finding a good book on the standard C++ language. (I think Bruce
Eckel's books do a good job of _introducing_ the language). Forget .Net and
managed C++ for now. The book's examples will be the singly threaded type
and their output will be the character-at-a-time style that dates from Grace
Hopper (no modern UI) that are the staple of tutorials. For that you can use
MS' free compiler:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/

Work through the book. Learn the language. Do all the examples. Use free the
compiler to develop, debug and test them. Come back in six months or a year
(it really takes that long) after you know the language.

Then you can ask for advice on getting up to speed on the .Net platform or
Windows (ie "Win32")
Thank you in advance for your time.

You are welcome.

Regards,
Will

P.S. My post is my opinion. Others may have diffeing opinions.

[roman ziak]

William DePalo [MVP VC++] wrote:

I need some real basic fatherly advice in
very some simple English. I programmed a little (basic) and took a C
course. Both were over 10 years ago and now I'm retired and want to
program as a hobby. Real simple English :)

Here's the deal. For mere mortals picking up the language (standard though
it may be) and a specific platform is often too much to chew in one bite. If
you are retired and have lots of time and ambition you may be able to do it
but you _will_ work up a sweat. If you are like me you will lose some hair
in the process. :-)

I suggest finding a good book on the standard C++ language. (I think Bruce
Eckel's books do a good job of _introducing_ the language). Forget .Net and
managed C++ for now. The book's examples will be the singly threaded type
and their output will be the character-at-a-time style that dates from Grace
Hopper (no modern UI) that are the staple of tutorials. For that you can use
MS' free compiler:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/

William, the toolkit is not meant as tool for beginners and he is not
looking for "free" anyway.

To make the learning more pleasurable I would go with your other
suggestion, i.e. download the Beta Express 2005 or order Beta 1 2005 DVD
from MS and use nice IDE with debugger.

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/get/default.aspx

Roman

[William DePalo [MVP VC++]]

"roman ziak" <ne***@MYLASTNA ME.com> wrote in message
news:O0******** *****@TK2MSFTNG P10.phx.gbl...

William, the toolkit is not meant as tool for beginners and he is not
looking for "free" anyway.
I don't know about that. All a beginner has to do is type the sample code
from a good book into Notepad, save the file and spend five minutes typing

cl /?

to learn how to build the samples and he is good to go.
To make the learning more pleasurable I would go with your other
suggestion, i.e. download the Beta Express 2005 or order Beta 1 2005 DVD
from MS and use nice IDE with debugger.

Another good choice. :-)

Regards,
Will