Why Windows Lost The Battle for the Desktop

[John Bailo]

The war of the OSes was won a long time ago.

Unix has always been, and will continue to be, the Server OS in the form
of Linux.

Microsoft struggled mightily to win that battle -- creating a poor man's
DBMS, a broken email server and various other /application/ servers to
try and crack the Internet and IS markets.

In the case where they didn't spend their own money to get companies to
install servers, they failed miserably, and the 1 Billion per quarter
Linux market is testament to that.

But, what M$ didn't want you to know, is that the only reason they
wanted to dominate the server, is to protect their desktop and office
applications market.

Seal up the server, and the desktop is safe; cede the server, and the
desktop will fall.

And so it is...falling into the hands of Linux.

[Jeff_Relf]

Hi unruh_string_ph ysics, You admitted: <<
And why in the world would they or anyone
just running either Windows or Linux " tweak source code " ?
If they want to in the Linux world they can [ a-a-ah ha ha ha ].
Most do not want to, or need to [ a-a-ah ha ha ha ]. >>

Being able to tweak the source code is, as you just admited,
not an advantage to the common man/womand,
as they typically can't/won't do it.

So where is the open-source advantage then ?

You can only argue that the entire package is superior ( for the common man ),
from installation/configuration to daily use to the next upgrade.

Yet, if that is true, you have to explain why the common man/woman
rejects this free " solution " in favor of a product that costs money.

It's better, but few want it ? Why is that ? Marketing ?

Oh wait... don't tell me... it's a conspiracy... headed by Bill Gates et al.

[Jeff_Relf]

Hi Andrew_DeFaria,

news:Je******** *************** @Cotse.NET is not, as you say,
" an invalid link ".

Not only is the news: prefix just as valid as the http: prefix,
major newsreaders, like Outlook and 40tude Dialog, handle it.

Thuderbird can't handle it ? ( Figures you'd be using it then )

Even so, you can always copy and paste the MID
into something that can handle it.

Vcards make you stupid... right K-Unit ?

[goleiro]

"John Bailo" wrote:

Jeff_Relf wrote:

Sam Walton didn't create a bunch of spoiled brats ( billionaires )
by overpaying his employees... neither did Bill Gates.

People forget.

The reason these companies is successful are that they deliver low costs
to the consumer.

For every pissed off programmer, there are 1000 happy customers, making
$30,000 a year, who can afford cheap goods.

Now Linux/WalMart are taking on that role.

Linux does what Microsoft does -- but it doesn't have to pay a Bill
Gates.

That's why its better

You're so ignorant. I work for Wal-Mart ISD. We don't waste our time with
Linux. We use everything from mainframe to all types of Unix to Windows....
no linux whatsoever, bub.
Who ever said that Wal-Mart dabbles in Linux???? You're crazy if you think
so. And by the way, Wal-Mart does pay Mr. Bill some big bucks.... you have
no idea how many Windows PCs we have at the Home Office and throughout the
stores.

[Rick]

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 23:11:37 +0000, Jeff_Relf wrote:

Hi Pokeweed ( and John ), You asked me: <<
It costs money to make things ' dumb ' for ' dummies ' ?
Are you the first to admit you're one of them ? >>

I'm as " dumb " as hell when it come to complex programs
( and the accompanying source code ) that I've never seen.
( Especially in a distro/language that I seldom/never use )
Would you admit the same ?

The common man/woman is never going to tweak
the endless source code contained in your typical Linux distro.

And AGAIN, why does the 'common man' nead to 'tweak the source code'?

--
Rick

[Kaoru Saotome]

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:53:58 -0500, "Scott M." <s-***@nospam.nosp am>
wrote:

You really don't have any control over the garbage spewing out of your head
do you?

This is an answer of a truly unbiased and experienced proffesional.
And it`s perfectly useable in every situation and every discussion.

--
KS

"John Bailo" <ja*****@earthl ink.net> wrote in message
news:pV******* *********@newsr ead1.news.pas.e arthlink.net...

Jeff_Relf wrote:

Hi John, Why don't you put you soul here your mouth is ?

Go to Yahoo/Google groups and just leave us a lone.

COLA is a Google Group.

If it weren't nobody would be here.

You don't deserve to be on Usenet, what with your vcard idiocy and all.

Today I checked out the Google API.

It's cool.

I found some mono source code for it.

A client app serves the public if its can add value to the Google Server
through the Google API running on Linux.

XP doesn't add value to Google.

That's why Google created their Desktop Search Engine.

Customers can't wait for Longhorne, so they switch to Google Linux Client.

[David Wright]

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

john bailo wrote:

Jeff_Relf wrote:

Hi John, Re: Micro-Soft being the original name of Microsoft,

You wrote: << I thought it was Traf-O-Data
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traf-O-Data >>
No, that was just something Bill and Paul did when Bill was 16,
see news:Je******** *************** @Cotse.NET

No, thanks.

I could care less.

Add to that it's an invalid link... ;-)

The link works here... Whether it is worth reading or not is another
matter ;-)

Dave

[David Wright]

Jeff_Relf wrote:

Hi Rick, To this from me: << The common man/woman
is not about to reprogram Linux just so he/she
can display the family photo album. Open source... ha ! >>

You replied: << You may now tell us how and why anyone would
have to 'reprogram' Linux so he/she can display a family album.
and be specific. >>

You may now compare the the most popular photo album programs
on WinXP and Linuxes and tell me which people prefer.
Also tell how the open-source code is utilized by the common man/woman,
...and be specific.

I use Bildbetrachter (Eye of Gnome) and Gwenview, two of the ones that are
included in SuSE's default configuration.. . Under Windows, I use my own
home-brew version, knocked up in a few minutes, it doesn't do rescaling
very well, but it is functional...

To be honest, I've never used any catalogue software (Windows or Linux) to
index my picture collection. The pictures are concisely named and dated and
split by time/location into folders...

Dave

[Andrew DeFaria]

Jeff_Relf wrote:

Hi Andrew_DeFaria,

news:Je******** *************** @Cotse.NET is not, as you say,
" an invalid link ".

Not only is the news: prefix just as valid as the http: prefix, major
newsreaders, like Outlook and 40tude Dialog, handle it.

Thuderbird can't handle it ? ( Figures you'd be using it then )

Even so, you can always copy and paste the MID into something that can
handle it.
News links are particularly problematic. A read of
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...ca5a70e5c8c745
may shed some light on the subject for you.
Vcards make you stupid... right K-Unit ?

You know what they say opinions are like...
--
Right now I'm having vu ja de--deja vu and amnesia at the same time. I
could have sworn I forgot this before!

[Andrew DeFaria]

Jeff_Relf wrote:

Tons of sourse code, on tons of distros, written in tons of languages
== tons of Tiny niches.
Jealous?
That sounds expensive to me, even if your time is worth nothing, even
if you're the world's most " literate " programmer.
Do you really think that MS doesn't also have tons of languages?
P.S. Seeing as you use <> instead of != I should explain that ==
means: " equal to ".

Of course, as you pointed out, that depends largely on the language you
are using. In Ada, IIRC, it's <>.
--
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

[David Wright]

Jeff_Relf wrote:

Hi David_Wright and Andrew_DeFaria ( ¿ K-Unit ),

To this from me: << The common man/woman is not about to reprogram Linux
just so he/she can display the family photo album. Open source... ha !

>>

You replied: << I run a consultancy
and manage a mixture of Windows and Linux clients.
I have never had to compile a package under Linux,
you are talking about the early days,
today there is little or no need to recompile packages for yourself
if you are using a mainstream distro... Unless you want to.
The TCO argument is usually down to the fact that
MS funded reports say that it is cheaper to administer
a network of Windows machines than a network of Linux machines
( and many of the comparisons are laughable ). >>

You don't sound like the common man/woman to me
( who, by the way, wouldn't know a TCO from a TKO ).

No, I'm probably not, having worked as an Programmer, Analyst, Consultant,
Project and Contract Manager for 15 years for one of the top 5 IT services
firms worldwide before moving to Germany and starting on my own.

I've worked on machines from humble 8080 microprocessor boards with a
hex-keypad and 8 digit LED readout to big-iron from the likes of IBM, ICL,
HP and DEC.

I've been a Windows developer since v2.0, I've also programmed for the Mac
and Amiga. I've not done any real programming on Linux until now.
How much do you pay to support your Linux boxen ?
( Don't forget to count the time you put into it )
For November, including upgrading 4 machines to SuSE 9.2, probably around 5
hours total administration (myself). I have never used any paid third party
support; I have asked a couple of questions in this AOLS group.

For the same period, I had to install Windows 2000 for a project,
reconfigure IIS on 2 machines install SQL Server 2000 and configure, and
trace a problems with IIS, SQL Server and InterDev not talking to each
other, plus patch and AV management... That worked out around 18 hours for
2 machines.
How often are you delving into the source code on your distro ?

Never. I've been running SuSE since version 8.0, originally as servers, and
lately as workstations as well... During that time (more than 2 years), I
have never loaded a single source package onto the machine, let alone
compiled it. That's why I use distro's like SuSE, Fedora and RH. If I
wanted to mess around with the source code, I'd build an optimised system
using something like Gentoo, but I just don't have the time or the need at
the moment.

I am not a religious user of Linux. I use Linux because it does what I need
effectively. I still use Windows for some tasks - and because my customers
do. I use the tools that suit me best. I just find that Linux is more
stable and requires less tinkering than Windows most of the time, it
doesn't run Windows viruses and displays HTML e-mails as source code until
I click on a button to say that I trust the code and want to view it
formatted (whoever invented HTML and scripted e-mail should be shot IMHO).

If Windows did the same tasks more efficiently and more cost effectively,
then I'd use Windows for those tasks. If I found another operating system
which did the tasks better than Linux and has software which I need (either
the relevant server processes; or for the desktop, applications which let
me read documents and e-mails sent from Windows and Linux platforms) then I
would switch to that.

I like the Open Source concepts, but if a closed source package will allow
me to do the job quicker and cheaper, I'll probably use that instead. For
me it is about tools. I choose the right tool for the current job and I
take the best quality tool I can find/afford.

Dave