introduction to programming

[Martin Schmied]

Dear folks

I'm looking for good sites/material for this topic:

Introduction to programming, using Javascript.

So, not introduction to programming *in" Javascript. Well, I guess this would be in a way included anyway, but I would like to use
Javascript/HTML/Browser as programming environment for pupils who have no idea of programming so far.

Any tip would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Martin

[SAM]

Martin Schmied a écrit :

Dear folks

I would like to use
Javascript/HTML/Browser as programming environment for pupils who have
no idea of programming so far.

In french :
Général :
<http://www.salemioche. net/pasapas.php>
HTML :
<http://magali.contensi n.free.fr/html/SYNTAXE_HTML/cours_html.html >
<http://pagesperso-orange.fr/chatinais/courhtml/somrhtml.htm>
JavaScript :
<http://pagesperso-orange.fr/chatinais/coursjs/somrjs.htm>
<http://www.salemioche. net/javascript.php>
<http://www.cmi.univ-mrs.fr/~contensi/CNFPT/index.php>

Mais tout n'est pas "uptodate" ....

--
sm

[Randy Webb]

Martin Schmied said the following on 1/12/2008 5:24 AM:

Dear folks

I'm looking for good sites/material for this topic:

Introduction to programming, using Javascript.

There have to be at least 100 languages better suited for what you want.

So, not introduction to programming *in" Javascript. Well, I guess this
would be in a way included anyway, but I would like to use
Javascript/HTML/Browser as programming environment for pupils who have
no idea of programming so far.

BASIC. Simplest language to teach concepts with.

Any tip would be much appreciated.

Don't try to use JS to teach programming principles. The language is so
screwed up that it makes it a difficult language to try to teach with.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javas cript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

[VK]

On Jan 12, 10:05 pm, Randy Webb <HikksNotAtH... @aol.comwrote:

Don't try to use JS to teach programming principles. The language is so
screwed up that it makes it a difficult language to try to teach with.

?!? That is the coolest statement I have heard so far about
JavaScript. I do remember myself back in 1997 making working scripts
in a couple of days after I started to learn it. So did millions of
other users ever since 1995, so will millions starting this year and
after that. I'm ready to agree that my quick progress was caused by my
absolutely outstanding IQ level :-) - so is it true for all others?

[Anthony Levensalor]

On 1/12/2008 5:24 AM, Martin Schmied wrote:

Dear folks

I'm looking for good sites/material for this topic:

Introduction to programming, using Javascript.

[snip]

There is no single best programming language, only the best programming
language for a particular task. If you want to learn strong object
oriented, very structured programming first, I would suggest C or C++.
It is the one of the most unforgiving languages ever written, and it
will make sure that the student using it does not do silly things.

One those foundations are in place, there is nothing hard about
programming, it's really the mindset and the concepts you need.

For something a little easier, but still very structured, Java is likely
the way to go.

I'll caveat that by saying that if your goal in programming is web
development inside the browser, then it makes sense to learn javascript.

~A!
--
anthony at my pet programmer dot com

[Jeff North]

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:24:27 +0100, in comp.lang.javas cript "Martin
Schmied" <ma****@jogging .ch>
<47************ *********@news. sunrise.chwrote :

>| Dear folks
|
| I'm looking for good sites/material for this topic:
|
| Introduction to programming, using Javascript.
|
| So, not introduction to programming *in" Javascript. Well, I guess this
| would be in a way included anyway, but I would like to use
| Javascript/HTML/Browser as programming environment for pupils who have
| no idea of programming so far.
|
| Any tip would be much appreciated.

Are you teaching a web development course?
If not then Javascript is the wrong language to teach. The student
needs a good working knowledge of HTML and CSS for this to be of any
benefit.

They will also need to use additional applications to help them write
and debug their code (Notepad++, Firefox with Web dev and Firebug
plugins).

I do teach a web development course with students who have had no
programming experience. I can tell you that it is bloody hard work
trying to get through so of the concepts.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------
jn******@yourpa ntsyahoo.com.au : Remove your pants to reply
-- -------------------------------------------------------------

[Martin Gregorie]

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

Martin Gregorie wrote:

>My tip would be: don't use Javascript to teach programming.

There's no compiler, so nothing to highlight errors in the source code.

Wrong, there is a compiler. There is a byte-code compiler for the server,
and there are just-in-time compilers in HTML user agents (that may or may
not create byte code that is later interpreted by a VM). Errors in the
source code are displayed on the command line, in UA's error consoles and
in script debuggers.

Not according to the Rhino book (5th edition), anyway. That mentions a
couple of interpreters, of which one, Rhino, is part of Java 6 and can
be used as a compiler if its embedded in a Java wrapper to capture and
save its output.

>In consequence any typing or syntax errors will merely and silently not
work.

Wrong.

Considering that I saw exactly this behavior last night and so am
talking from recent experience, I disagree.

FYI: Opera 9.25, mistyped variable names, nothing in the error console.
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Randy Webb]

VK said the following on 1/12/2008 3:02 PM:

On Jan 12, 10:05 pm, Randy Webb <HikksNotAtH... @aol.comwrote:

>Don't try to use JS to teach programming principles. The language is so
screwed up that it makes it a difficult language to try to teach with.

?!? That is the coolest statement I have heard so far about
JavaScript. I do remember myself back in 1997 making working scripts
in a couple of days after I started to learn it.

After some of the scripts you have posted here in the last 2-3 years,
maybe you should have stopped after a couple of days.

So did millions of other users ever since 1995, so will millions starting
this year and after that.

No, what they did (and you included) was to write a half decent script
that worked where you tested it.

I'm ready to agree that my quick progress was caused by my
absolutely outstanding IQ level :-) - so is it true for all others?

Your IQ level ranges around my shoe size. And I don't have a very big foot.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javas cript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

[Randy Webb]

VK said the following on 1/12/2008 3:36 PM:

On Jan 12, 1:24 pm, "Martin Schmied" <mar...@jogging .chwrote:

>Dear folks

I'm looking for good sites/material for this topic:

Introduction to programming, using Javascript.

So, not introduction to programming *in" Javascript. Well, I guess this would be in a way included anyway, but I would like to use
Javascript/HTML/Browser as programming environment for pupils who have no idea of programming so far.

Any tip would be much appreciated.

Well, just to make your "feet wet" right away, you may try this
minimalistic page:

And then trash it.

For a total beginner http://www.w3schools.com/js/default.asp may be a
readable resource. Other readers may have their own suggestions.

Considering that half of what is on that site is unmitigated garbage
then it isn't a good resource for anybody other than someone that wants
to see how *not* to do things.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javas cript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Martin Gregorie wrote:

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

>Martin Gregorie wrote:

>>My tip would be: don't use Javascript to teach programming.

There's no compiler, so nothing to highlight errors in the source code.

Wrong, there is a compiler. There is a byte-code compiler for the server,
and there are just-in-time compilers in HTML user agents (that may or may
not create byte code that is later interpreted by a VM). Errors in the
source code are displayed on the command line, in UA's error consoles and
in script debuggers.

Not according to the Rhino book (5th edition), anyway. That mentions a
couple of interpreters, of which one, Rhino, is part of Java 6 and can
be used as a compiler if its embedded in a Java wrapper to capture and
save its output.

Rhino is merely the Java implementation of the JavaScript script engine,
SpiderMonkey, which also emphasizes that JavaScript and Java are *different*
languages.

My sincere suggestion to you and any other beginner would be to not to let
your J(ava)Script/ECMAScript knowledge be based on any book. There are a
number of J(ava)Script/ECMAScript- and DOM-related books out there and so
far none qualifies as being a reliable language or API reference. The FAQ
only recommends Flanagan's "JavaScript : The Definitive Guide (4th ed.)" as
being the least bad book about the topic.

http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Rhino

>>In consequence any typing or syntax errors will merely and silently not
work.

Wrong.

Considering that I saw exactly this behavior last night and so am
talking from recent experience, I disagree.

FYI: Opera 9.25, mistyped variable names, nothing in the error console.

You have made a general statement about "typing or syntax errors" in JS/ES
not being displayed, which is wrong. Syntax errors throw a SyntaxError
exception in implementations of ECMAScript Ed. 3, such as JavaScript 1.5+
and JScript 5.6, before the code is even executed, which will cause HTML
user agents or extensions for them (cf. Firebug) to display them in the
error console. Mistyped variable names will result in a ReferenceError
runtime error on read access, that is reported as well. Only if the
variable name is mistyped on write access that results in the creation of a
property of an object in the scope chain, which will therefore go without an
error message.

Please read
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs..._to_JavaScript pp.
before you make further bold statements about a group of programming
languages you obviously don't know about.
PointedEars
--
var bugRiddenCrashP ronePieceOfJunk = (
navigator.userA gent.indexOf('M SIE 5') != -1
&& navigator.userA gent.indexOf('M ac') != -1
) // Plone, register_functi on.js:16