Using noscript overlaps "normal"

[Andrew Poulos]

If I have a page with a bunch of content and some javascript in the head
how do I notify the javascript disabled users that enabling javascript
would enhance their experience. At the moment I'm trying the noscript
tag but its content overlaps the "normal" content.

I'd like to put a link to non-javascript pages and I'd rather not put
the normal content in a document.write.
Andrew Poulos

[Michael Winter]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:41:06 +1100, Andrew Poulos <ap*****@hotmai l.com>
wrote:

If I have a page with a bunch of content and some javascript in the head
how do I notify the javascript disabled users that enabling javascript
would enhance their experience.

You don't need to.

Visitors that lack scripting support usually lack it for a reason so
telling them to turn it on (if that's even possible) is a waste of time.

If the script(s) your documents use really are just to "enhance their
experience", users really don't need to know. If those scripts are
required, and this is a Web page, you probably need to rethink your design.

[snip]

Mike

--
Michael Winter
Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.

[Andrew Poulos]

Michael Winter wrote:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:41:06 +1100, Andrew Poulos <ap*****@hotmai l.com>
wrote:

If I have a page with a bunch of content and some javascript in the
head how do I notify the javascript disabled users that enabling
javascript would enhance their experience.

You don't need to.

Visitors that lack scripting support usually lack it for a reason so
telling them to turn it on (if that's even possible) is a waste of time.

If the script(s) your documents use really are just to "enhance their
experience", users really don't need to know. If those scripts are
required, and this is a Web page, you probably need to rethink your design.

I used the term "enhance their experience" so people wouldn't jump on me
for making pages that are dependant on scripting support. Sorry, I
didn't want to get into a discussion about the client's specification
etc. and not get my question addressed. Still it seems my silly ploy
backfired.
Andrew Poulos

[Michael Winter]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:19:41 +1100, Andrew Poulos <ap*****@hotmai l.com>
wrote:

[snip]

I used the term "enhance their experience" so people wouldn't jump on me
for making pages that are dependant on scripting support.

People can often say one thing and mean another entirely. I just wanted to
make the point clear.

Whether the script(s) are solely an enhancement or not, the user doesn't
need to be told - and shouldn't be told - to alter their configuration. As
I said, users without scripting support usually lack that support for a
reason and they will not, or simply cannot, change that just because you
say they should. Besides, they should be well aware that they will be
missing out on features that are provided through scripting.

[snip]

Mike

--
Michael Winter
Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.

[Evertjan.]

Andrew Poulos wrote on 14 dec 2004 in comp.lang.javas cript:

If I have a page with a bunch of content and some javascript in the
head how do I notify the javascript disabled users that enabling
javascript would enhance their experience. At the moment I'm trying
the noscript tag but its content overlaps the "normal" content.

I'd like to put a link to non-javascript pages and I'd rather not put
the normal content in a document.write.

It should not, unless you use some very tricky css.

Try this, sorry: OT on this NG:

<noscript style='font-size:20pt;color :yellow;
background-color:#555;z-index:9999;text-align:center;'>
<br><br><br>
Idiot!
<br><br><br>
Not enabling scripting should be made a crime against cyberlife!
<br><br>
<a href='/moronpage.html' >Press this, you moron</a>
<br><br>
</noscript>

Not tested,
because I don't even want to know how to switch scripting off.

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

[Tim Williams]

Place the " blah blah enable javascript blah" in a div at the top of
the page and use the onload event to hide it.

Tim.
"Andrew Poulos" <ap*****@hotmai l.com> wrote in message
news:41******** *************** @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au ...

If I have a page with a bunch of content and some javascript in the
head how do I notify the javascript disabled users that enabling
javascript would enhance their experience. At the moment I'm trying
the noscript tag but its content overlaps the "normal" content.

I'd like to put a link to non-javascript pages and I'd rather not
put the normal content in a document.write.
Andrew Poulos

[Andrew Poulos]

<clipped>

Whether the script(s) are solely an enhancement or not, the user
doesn't need to be told - and shouldn't be told - to alter their
configuration. As I said, users without scripting support usually lack
that support for a reason and they will not, or simply cannot, change
If I write a Flash-based piece of e-learning that uses javascript to
talk to a SCORM LMS are you saying it should just fail silently if
javascript is disabled? Surely informing users, even if they can't act
on the information, is preferable?
that just because you say they should. Besides, they should be well
aware that they will be missing out on features that are provided
through scripting.

You assume that a user will be using a computer that they regularly have
access to and so are fully aware of its configuration. What if I tried
to use a paranoid colleague's computer?

Andrew Poulos

[Michael Winter]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:23:24 +1100, Andrew Poulos <ap*****@hotmai l.com>
wrote:

<clipped>

Whether the script(s) are solely an enhancement or not, the user
doesn't need to be told - and shouldn't be told - to alter their
configuration. As I said, users without scripting support usually lack
that support for a reason and they will not, or simply cannot, change
If I write a Flash-based piece of e-learning that uses javascript to
talk to a SCORM LMS are you saying it should just fail silently if
javascript is disabled?

That is a different situation. As usual, if you don't mention an
environment I, and many others, will assume that we're discussing the Web
in general.
Surely informing users, even if they can't act on the information, is
preferable?
With something that you've just described, yes, but on the Web, no. As you
know, a site should be functional without client-side scripting support so
the need to inform a visitor in that situation shouldn't arise in the
first place. If the script is an enhancement, why should the user care?
How does telling a visitor to turn on scripting help a person who doesn't
even know what Javascript is? Similarly the user of a public-access system
who has no control over the set up whatsoever? If the user has to jump
through hoops to use the site without scripting, the design is flawed.

Users should be spared technical details unless you're sure that they are
capable of understanding them and that they need to know the information.

[snip]
What if I tried to use a paranoid colleague's computer?

If you're using someone else's system, surely you should be respecting the
decisions they make when configuring it?

Mike

--
Michael Winter
Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.

[Dr John Stockton]

JRS: In article <Xn************ *******@194.109 .133.29>, dated Tue, 14
Dec 2004 19:12:13, seen in news:comp.lang. javascript, Evertjan.
<ex************ **@interxnl.net > posted :

Not tested,
because I don't even want to know how to switch scripting off.

For test purposes, if your browser is like mine, it suffices to put
<script>.</script>
on the test page before the other scripting, and to answer "No".

That way, only the page under test can possibly be affected, I hope.

Other characters can be used, but not a digit; I'm not sure what the
*most* invalid one-keypress script might be.

<script>?</script>
might be better, on some keyboards; >?< are all shifted and nearby.

H'mm - on my system, NOSCRIPT does not show immediately after a failing
script, which may be reasonable.

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon. co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc : <URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/programs/> - see 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.

[Evertjan.]

Dr John Stockton wrote on 15 dec 2004 in comp.lang.javas cript:

JRS: In article <Xn************ *******@194.109 .133.29>, dated Tue, 14
Dec 2004 19:12:13, seen in news:comp.lang. javascript, Evertjan.

Not tested,
because I don't even want to know how to switch scripting off.
For test purposes, if your browser is like mine, it suffices to put
<script>.</script>
on the test page before the other scripting, and to answer "No".

Nice idea.
H'mm - on my system, NOSCRIPT does not show immediately after a failing
script, which may be reasonable.

As scripting error is not the same as no scripting available:

<script>.</script>
<noscript>Doesn 't show on IE6</noscript>

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)