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Opera disaster

P: n/a
I like Opera but it doesn't like Democrats.

This page validates as XHTML and is OK in MSIE 6 but is
a disaster in Opera 7.23.

http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html

Does this mean we should not be using Opera? Or not XHTML?

Mason C
Jul 20 '05 #1
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19 Replies


P: n/a
MasonC <ma****@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
I like Opera but it doesn't like Democrats.

This page validates as XHTML and is OK in MSIE 6 but is
a disaster in Opera 7.23.
You have a peculiar definition of "disaster".
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html

Does this mean we should not be using Opera? Or not XHTML?


Like many other web authors, the authors of that site need to learn how
to code for the web, instead of coding for IE.

Same site exhibits an issue (or in your language "is a disaster") in
Mozilla.

Law of the web # 33: Whenever a site displays differently in IE and
Opera, or IE and Mozilla, IE's rendering is always wrong.

--
Spartanicus
Jul 20 '05 #2

P: n/a
Spartanicus wrote:
MasonC <ma****@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html

Does this mean we should not be using Opera? Or not XHTML?


Like many other web authors, the authors of that site need to learn how
to code for the web, instead of coding for IE.

Same site exhibits an issue (or in your language "is a disaster") in
Mozilla.

Law of the web # 33: Whenever a site displays differently in IE and
Opera, or IE and Mozilla, IE's rendering is always wrong.


That's a bit too broad. I would say generally when any three of Mozilla,
Opera, Konqueror, and Safari agree on a rendering, and IE's differs
substantially, then it's an IE bug.

Then again, I have no idea what sites out there are "designed for IE" these
days, as I never use IE (doesn't run on my OS).

--
Shawn K. Quinn
Jul 20 '05 #3

P: n/a
Spartanicus wrote:
MasonC <ma****@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html

Does this mean we should not be using Opera? Or not XHTML?


Like many other web authors, the authors of that site need to learn how
to code for the web, instead of coding for IE.

Same site exhibits an issue (or in your language "is a disaster") in
Mozilla.

Law of the web # 33: Whenever a site displays differently in IE and
Opera, or IE and Mozilla, IE's rendering is always wrong.


That's a bit too broad. I would say generally when any three of Mozilla,
Opera, Konqueror, and Safari agree on a rendering, and IE's differs
substantially, then it's an IE bug.

Then again, I have no idea what sites out there are "designed for IE" these
days, as I never use IE (doesn't run on my OS).

--
Shawn K. Quinn
Jul 20 '05 #4

P: n/a
"Shawn K. Quinn" <sk*****@xevious.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
Law of the web # 33: Whenever a site displays differently in IE and
Opera, or IE and Mozilla, IE's rendering is always wrong.


That's a bit too broad. I would say generally when any three of Mozilla,
Opera, Konqueror, and Safari agree on a rendering, and IE's differs
substantially, then it's an IE bug.


Feel free to challenge the Law (it's possible, but I'm not telling),
come up with an example that renders per spec in IE and not per spec in
either Opera or Mozilla. No cheating, current release grade versions
only.

--
Spartanicus
Jul 20 '05 #5

P: n/a
"Shawn K. Quinn" <sk*****@xevious.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
Law of the web # 33: Whenever a site displays differently in IE and
Opera, or IE and Mozilla, IE's rendering is always wrong.


That's a bit too broad. I would say generally when any three of Mozilla,
Opera, Konqueror, and Safari agree on a rendering, and IE's differs
substantially, then it's an IE bug.


Feel free to challenge the Law (it's possible, but I'm not telling),
come up with an example that renders per spec in IE and not per spec in
either Opera or Mozilla. No cheating, current release grade versions
only.

--
Spartanicus
Jul 20 '05 #6

P: n/a
Quoth the raven named MasonC:
I like Opera but it doesn't like Democrats.

This page validates as XHTML and is OK in MSIE 6 but is a disaster
in Opera 7.23.

http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html
I do notice a really strange thing about that page.

The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills everything
from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this particular practice
before.

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
href="http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/www.democrats.org/style/2col_ak.css"
/>
Does this mean we should not be using Opera?
A fine browser.
Or not XHTML?


Doesn't make much difference with this page...

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
Jul 20 '05 #7

P: n/a
Quoth the raven named MasonC:
I like Opera but it doesn't like Democrats.

This page validates as XHTML and is OK in MSIE 6 but is a disaster
in Opera 7.23.

http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html
I do notice a really strange thing about that page.

The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills everything
from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this particular practice
before.

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
href="http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/www.democrats.org/style/2col_ak.css"
/>
Does this mean we should not be using Opera?
A fine browser.
Or not XHTML?


Doesn't make much difference with this page...

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
Jul 20 '05 #8

P: n/a
in post: <news:US*******************@twister.nyroc.rr.com >
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> said:

http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html
I do notice a really strange thing about that page.

The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills everything
from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this particular practice
before.


http://wired.com/ do the same thing and have this little message:

"Note: You are reading this message either because you can not see our
css files (served from Akamai for performance reasons), or because you
do not have a standards-compliant browser. Read our design notes for
details."

--
b r u c i e
Jul 20 '05 #9

P: n/a
in post: <news:US*******************@twister.nyroc.rr.com >
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> said:

http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html
I do notice a really strange thing about that page.

The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills everything
from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this particular practice
before.


http://wired.com/ do the same thing and have this little message:

"Note: You are reading this message either because you can not see our
css files (served from Akamai for performance reasons), or because you
do not have a standards-compliant browser. Read our design notes for
details."

--
b r u c i e
Jul 20 '05 #10

P: n/a
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
MasonC wrote:
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html


I do notice a really strange thing about that page.

The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills everything
from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this particular practice
before.


E.g.: http://www.wired.com/

Quote (http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/...ry031217tb.htm)
"Akamai owns 80% of the content delivery network (CDN) market. The firm
operates more than 14,000 servers, all bringing Web content
geographically closer to customers, bypassing Internet bottlenecks along
the way.

Akamai was born when Web creator Tim Berners-Lee challenged MIT
colleague Tom Leighton to find a way to alleviate Net traffic
congestion. Student Daniel Lewin pitched in and Leighton's group was a
finalist in the 1998 MIT Entrepreneur's Competition. That finish
attracted enough venture capital to launch Akamai."
--
Andrew Urquhart
- Archive: http://tinyurl.com/ysjbm
- Contact: www.andrewu.co.uk/contact/
- Employ me: Front/middle tier ASP developer with WAI & web standards
Jul 20 '05 #11

P: n/a
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
MasonC wrote:
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html


I do notice a really strange thing about that page.

The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills everything
from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this particular practice
before.


E.g.: http://www.wired.com/

Quote (http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/...ry031217tb.htm)
"Akamai owns 80% of the content delivery network (CDN) market. The firm
operates more than 14,000 servers, all bringing Web content
geographically closer to customers, bypassing Internet bottlenecks along
the way.

Akamai was born when Web creator Tim Berners-Lee challenged MIT
colleague Tom Leighton to find a way to alleviate Net traffic
congestion. Student Daniel Lewin pitched in and Leighton's group was a
finalist in the 1998 MIT Entrepreneur's Competition. That finish
attracted enough venture capital to launch Akamai."
--
Andrew Urquhart
- Archive: http://tinyurl.com/ysjbm
- Contact: www.andrewu.co.uk/contact/
- Employ me: Front/middle tier ASP developer with WAI & web standards
Jul 20 '05 #12

P: n/a
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Quoth the raven named MasonC:
The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills
everything
from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this particular
practice
before.


More likely they are getting paid by akamai.net. Think of the
ad oppurtunities.... BJ
Jul 20 '05 #13

P: n/a
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Quoth the raven named MasonC:
The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills
everything
from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this particular
practice
before.


More likely they are getting paid by akamai.net. Think of the
ad oppurtunities.... BJ
Jul 20 '05 #14

P: n/a
Quoth the raven named brucie:
in post: <news:US*******************@twister.nyroc.rr.com >
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> said:
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html

I do notice a really strange thing about that page.

The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills
everything from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this
particular practice before.


http://wired.com/ do the same thing and have this little message:


....
Oh ok. I have several of the akamai servers in hosts, but not the one
at a1112.g.akamai.net (wired). Heh, I'll make a note about this.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
Jul 20 '05 #15

P: n/a
Quoth the raven named brucie:
in post: <news:US*******************@twister.nyroc.rr.com >
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> said:
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html

I do notice a really strange thing about that page.

The stylesheets and the JavaScript files are located on an *ad
server*. Sure blows up the page after my HOSTS file kills
everything from akamai.net. Personally, I've never seen this
particular practice before.


http://wired.com/ do the same thing and have this little message:


....
Oh ok. I have several of the akamai servers in hosts, but not the one
at a1112.g.akamai.net (wired). Heh, I'll make a note about this.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
Jul 20 '05 #16

P: n/a
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:35:08 +0100, Spartanicus <me@privacy.net> wrote:
MasonC <ma****@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
I like Opera but it doesn't like Democrats.

This page validates as XHTML and is OK in MSIE 6 but is
a disaster in Opera 7.23.
You have a peculiar definition of "disaster".
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html

Does this mean we should not be using Opera? Or not XHTML?


Like many other web authors, the authors of that site need to learn how
to code for the web, instead of coding for IE.


Well they haven't just marked-up for IE, because there are IE-hiding
hacks in there! I suppose they only tested on IE. Or something.
Same site exhibits an issue (or in your language "is a disaster") in
Mozilla.

Law of the web # 33: Whenever a site displays differently in IE and
Opera, or IE and Mozilla, IE's rendering is always wrong.


Not quite: sometimes it's acceptable variation in such things as default
margin/padding widths. And often the page itself is nonsense, so the
required rendering is undefined. I suggest you phrase it as:

Whenever a site displays differently in IE and Opera, or IE and Mozilla,
it isn't Opera or Mozilla which is wrong.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
Jul 20 '05 #17

P: n/a
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:35:08 +0100, Spartanicus <me@privacy.net> wrote:
MasonC <ma****@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
I like Opera but it doesn't like Democrats.

This page validates as XHTML and is OK in MSIE 6 but is
a disaster in Opera 7.23.
You have a peculiar definition of "disaster".
http://www.democrats.org/specialrepo...esa/page3.html

Does this mean we should not be using Opera? Or not XHTML?


Like many other web authors, the authors of that site need to learn how
to code for the web, instead of coding for IE.


Well they haven't just marked-up for IE, because there are IE-hiding
hacks in there! I suppose they only tested on IE. Or something.
Same site exhibits an issue (or in your language "is a disaster") in
Mozilla.

Law of the web # 33: Whenever a site displays differently in IE and
Opera, or IE and Mozilla, IE's rendering is always wrong.


Not quite: sometimes it's acceptable variation in such things as default
margin/padding widths. And often the page itself is nonsense, so the
required rendering is undefined. I suggest you phrase it as:

Whenever a site displays differently in IE and Opera, or IE and Mozilla,
it isn't Opera or Mozilla which is wrong.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
Jul 20 '05 #18

P: n/a
Spartanicus <me@privacy.net> wrote:
"Shawn K. Quinn" <sk*****@xevious.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
Law of the web # 33: Whenever a site displays differently in IE and
Opera, or IE and Mozilla, IE's rendering is always wrong.


That's a bit too broad. I would say generally when any three of Mozilla,
Opera, Konqueror, and Safari agree on a rendering, and IE's differs
substantially, then it's an IE bug.


Feel free to challenge the Law (it's possible, but I'm not telling),
come up with an example that renders per spec in IE and not per spec in
either Opera or Mozilla. No cheating, current release grade versions
only.


Easy. But what will I win?

--
Karl Smith.
Jul 20 '05 #19

P: n/a
Spartanicus <me@privacy.net> wrote:
"Shawn K. Quinn" <sk*****@xevious.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
Law of the web # 33: Whenever a site displays differently in IE and
Opera, or IE and Mozilla, IE's rendering is always wrong.


That's a bit too broad. I would say generally when any three of Mozilla,
Opera, Konqueror, and Safari agree on a rendering, and IE's differs
substantially, then it's an IE bug.


Feel free to challenge the Law (it's possible, but I'm not telling),
come up with an example that renders per spec in IE and not per spec in
either Opera or Mozilla. No cheating, current release grade versions
only.


Easy. But what will I win?

--
Karl Smith.
Jul 20 '05 #20

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