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Different size for different font

In his book "CSS: The Definitive Guide" 2nd edition (pgs. 116-117), Eric
Meyer has an interesting discussion about "font-size-adjust" that was
evidently dropped in CSS 2.1 due to browser non-support. I'm wondering
if there's some way I could still get a primitive version of this
functionality, because different fonts display at very different optical
sizes for the same nominal sizes.

For example, suppose I want type to display in 13px/1.5em Georgia. But
if the user doesn't have Georgia installed, and I've simply listed Times
New Roman as the alternate font in the usual way (or if "serif" gets
interpreted as Times on their system), then the type will display in
13px Times, which is optically much smaller than 13px Georgia (and has
optically different xheight/linespacing characteristics too). Even if I
used em instead of px, I'm guessing there'd be a substantial size
difference.

So what I'd really like, in the absence of "font-size-adjust", is
something like this:

p.someClass {font: 13px/1.5em Georgia, 15px/1.4em "Times New Roman",
14px/1.5em serif;}

....but I have a feeling that wouldn't actually do what I want. Er...
would it?

Any solution?
May 20 '07
53 5270
On 21 May, 17:48, Kevin Scholl <ksch...@comcas t.netwrote:
Higher resolutions will of course make text appear smaller on screen.
Not necessarily for IE.

Owing to a bug in how IE applies the Windows desktop default font size
adjustment twice, a high-resolution Windows display may display web
pages at an excessively _large_ size. If the user has obtained a high
resolution display and a monitor of average size it's relatively
common (more common than them setting browser user stylesheet) for
them to set the Windows desktop display font size to be larger than
standard. IE then applies this settings again itself (Windows has
already applied it), resulting in browser "1em" sizes being
relatively larger than when a lower resolution display has been
configured to give equally sized desktop fonts.

May 25 '07 #51
On 2007/05/21 09:48 (GMT-0700) Kevin Scholl apparently typed:
For the record, that is #666 on a background that is #EEE fading to
#FFF (white). Studies for years have shown that high contrast such a
black on white cause the eyes to tire quickly, so I softened the
contrast.
Sounds like urban legend to me. Can you cite any such studies?

I suspect most who think black on white is too contrasty have incorrectly
adjusted display brightness and contrast settings. Manufacturers tend to set
these values to arbitrarily high defaults in order to more readily lure buyers.

My eyes tire least quickly when text is easiest to read, which means a
correctly set display, maximum contrast text (black or virtual black, not
"gray"), and my choice of text size.
--
"The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
ever brighter till the full light of day." Proverbs 4:18 NIV

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
May 27 '07 #52
Scripsit Felix Miata:
On 2007/05/21 09:48 (GMT-0700) Kevin Scholl apparently typed:
>For the record, that is #666 on a background that is #EEE fading to
#FFF (white). Studies for years have shown that high contrast such a
black on white cause the eyes to tire quickly, so I softened the
contrast.

Sounds like urban legend to me.
I don't think it even counts as an urban legend. It's simply crap, nonsense,
or trolling.

Its assumed trolling value is probably based on the assumption that people
will confuse the issue of the effects of "pure white" on screen in large
quantities. You addressed this issue accordingly. It's a matter of tuning
the monitor, if needed. If authors second-guess this (and cause trouble to
all those users who see nothing wrong with "white" since their monitor's
"white" is properly tuned), then it's a poor authoring practice, but Kevin
Scholl additionally wants to use bad contrast.

--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

May 27 '07 #53
In article <YJ************ ********@reader 1.news.saunalah ti.fi>,
"Jukka K. Korpela" <jk******@cs.tu t.fiwrote:
Scripsit Felix Miata:
On 2007/05/21 09:48 (GMT-0700) Kevin Scholl apparently typed:
For the record, that is #666 on a background that is #EEE fading to
#FFF (white). Studies for years have shown that high contrast such a
black on white cause the eyes to tire quickly, so I softened the
contrast.
Sounds like urban legend to me.

I don't think it even counts as an urban legend. It's simply crap, nonsense,
or trolling.
Well, I can't speak for actual studies, but my uncle is a specialist in
lighting and vision (reader in ergonomics at Loughborough University,
now retired[1]) and we've had this conversation...

High contrast environments are generally harder on the eyes,
particularly black text on a white or clear background at high light
intensity levels (e.g. a printed page in strong sunlight, staring at the
screen for a really bright overhead projector, etc.) [0] BUT...

Whether or not this situation has a noticeable effect on the person
looking at the high contrast depends on a number of factors, including
duration, age, eye health, and ambient light levels. In other words,
there's a difference between staring at a projector screen in a room
that is otherwise completely dark, compared to the same screen in a
room with normal ambient illumination (e.g. window shades open)

Where this becomes really important (and my uncle's particular interest)
is for people with eye problems such as cataracts; you can actually
improve their ability to read a book by reducing page contrast (use an
incandescent light on a dimmer, or a shade that colours the light.)

I don't know how this translates to the specific situation of monitor
screens[2], since at the time I asked about this computers where not in
widespread use, most monitors used white or green text on a black
background, and video data projectors were an expensive novelty.
That's a whole other field of research and, from what I've seen reported
in the media, seems more to do with focus-related eye strain. This would
get back more to using a font SIZE that was reasonably legible at a
comfortable viewing distance from the monitor (and only the individual
user really knows what that is for them!)

There are, in addition, certain background/foreground colour combinations
which can result in fuzzier-looking text on lower dpi monitors, due to
the use of separate RGB pixels. I suspect (although I don't know) that
this is not as much of a problem with modern screens that have the three
colours in different layers and higher intrinsic physical dpi.

Of course, that still doesn't excuse things like pale yellow text on a
white background or, in the case of one site I visited (once!), dark red
text on a forest green background...

[0] There's a reason (quite apart from premature burn-out/burn-in) that
early monochrome CRT displays used a black background.[3]

[1] He was one of the first to study the effects of fluorescent lighting
on employees in offices.

[2] I'm quite sure ergonomists have studied the effects of screen
contrast and intensity vs. duration of use, but I'm equally sure
I can't be bothered to look it up. Besides, a computer user can
adjust brightness, contrast, and ambient light levels to suit.

[3] You know you've done too much C programming when your footnotes
are zero-indexed...
May 28 '07 #54

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