Border color and style differences across browsers

[Warren Sarle]

Here are two screen captures: http://www.warrensarle.com/borders.gif
of this one web page: http://www.warrensarle.com/borders.php
in IE and Firefox. A border-style of solid is rendered the same in both
browsers. Border-styles of outset and ridge produce radically different
colors (grays in this case; saturated colors produce even more dramatic
differences) in the two browsers. In particular, a border color of
#000000 is rendered as black in IE but as light and medium gray in
Firefox. Does this problem exist in other non-IE browsers?

I have another web page where the border colors are specified via
a complicated interaction with the user. I need for darker values of
border-color to render darker than lighter values, as happens in IE
and as most users would expect. Are there any CSS options to get
border colors to render in a reasonable way with outset and ridge
styles in non-IE browsers?

[Spartanicus]

"Warren Sarle" <sa****@unx.sas .com> wrote:

Here are two screen captures: http://www.warrensarle.com/borders.gif
of this one web page: http://www.warrensarle.com/borders.php
in IE and Firefox. A border-style of solid is rendered the same in both
browsers. Border-styles of outset and ridge produce radically different
colors (grays in this case; saturated colors produce even more dramatic
differences) in the two browsers. In particular, a border color of
#000000 is rendered as black in IE but as light and medium gray in
Firefox. Does this problem exist in other non-IE browsers?

The CSS spec does not stipulate how browsers should generate gradients
that are used for inset and outset borders. Browsers use their own
individual routines to do this, often dependent on the background colour
that the border is painted on.

--
Spartanicus

[Neredbojias]

To further the education of mankind, "Warren Sarle" <sa****@unx.sas .com>
vouchsafed:

Are there any CSS options to get
border colors to render in a reasonable way with outset and ridge
styles in non-IE browsers?

What you're really asking is "...in the _same_ way", and the answer is no.

--
Neredbojias
Infinity can have limits.

[Warren Sarle]

In article <Xn************ *************** *******@208.49. 80.251>,
Neredbojias <http://www.neredbojias .com/fliam.php?cat=a lt.html> writes:

To further the education of mankind, "Warren Sarle" <sa****@unx.sas .com>
vouchsafed:

Are there any CSS options to get
border colors to render in a reasonable way with outset and ridge
styles in non-IE browsers?

What you're really asking is "...in the _same_ way", and the answer is no.

No, I did NOT ask for "...in the _same_ way".
It would be reasonable for the rendered color to be a monotone
function of the specified color.
It is not reasonable for #000000 to be rendered as light gray.

--

Warren S. Sarle SAS Institute Inc. The opinions expressed here
sa****@unx.sas. com SAS Campus Drive are mine and not necessarily
[phone] Cary, NC 27513, USA those of SAS Institute.

[Neredbojias]

To further the education of mankind, sa****@unx.sas. com (Warren Sarle)
vouchsafed:

In article <Xn************ *************** *******@208.49. 80.251>,
Neredbojias <http://www.neredbojias .com/fliam.php?cat=a lt.html>
writes:

To further the education of mankind, "Warren Sarle"
<sa****@unx.sas .com> vouchsafed:

> Are there any CSS options to get
> border colors to render in a reasonable way with outset and ridge
> styles in non-IE browsers?

What you're really asking is "...in the _same_ way", and the answer
is no.

No, I did NOT ask for "...in the _same_ way".
It would be reasonable for the rendered color to be a monotone
function of the specified color.
It is not reasonable for #000000 to be rendered as light gray.

Why?

Apparently it is more reasonable to Microsoft to subtract something like
x40 from the base color for the inset color in 'ridge'. In the middle
lumina ranges, this could arguably be more appropriate than _beginning_
with a x00-xa0 range as Netscape does. However, in the lower lumina
ranges, IE shows no dimension at all, so how reasonable is that?

--
Neredbojias
Infinity can have limits.

[Warren Sarle]

In article <Xn************ *************** *******@208.49. 80.251>,
Neredbojias <http://www.neredbojias .com/fliam.php?cat=a lt.html> writes:

To further the education of mankind, sa****@unx.sas. com (Warren Sarle)
vouchsafed:

...
It is not reasonable for #000000 to be rendered as light gray.

Why?

If I wanted a light gray border, I would have asked for
a light gray border.
--

Warren S. Sarle SAS Institute Inc. The opinions expressed here
sa****@unx.sas. com SAS Campus Drive are mine and not necessarily
[phone] Cary, NC 27513, USA those of SAS Institute.

[Neredbojias]

To further the education of mankind, sa****@unx.sas. com (Warren Sarle)
vouchsafed:

In article <Xn************ *************** *******@208.49. 80.251>,
Neredbojias <http://www.neredbojias .com/fliam.php?cat=a lt.html> writes:

To further the education of mankind, sa****@unx.sas. com (Warren Sarle)
vouchsafed:

> ...
> It is not reasonable for #000000 to be rendered as light gray.

Why?

If I wanted a light gray border, I would have asked for
a light gray border.

Well, I don't actually disagree with you, but in answer to your original
question, I know of no way to get Mozilla, etc., to change its default
behavior in this area.

A sort-of makeshift method I've used before is to incorporate extra padding
and solid-border as a "unity", but this is pretty rudimentary at best.

--
Neredbojias
Infinity has its limits.

[Warren Sarle]

In article <Xn************ *************** ******@208.49.8 0.251>,
Neredbojias <http://www.neredbojias .com/fliam.php?cat=a lt.html> writes:

...
Well, I don't actually disagree with you, but in answer to your original
question, I know of no way to get Mozilla, etc., to change its default
behavior in this area.

A sort-of makeshift method I've used before is to incorporate extra padding
and solid-border as a "unity", but this is pretty rudimentary at best.

Thank you for a helpful response.

What I'm doing now is using {border-style: solid}, putting another
div around it with {border-style: solid} again, and setting different
colors on various edges. It's a nuisance, but in this particular
application, the border colors are an important cue.

--

Warren S. Sarle SAS Institute Inc. The opinions expressed here
sa****@unx.sas. com SAS Campus Drive are mine and not necessarily
[phone] Cary, NC 27513, USA those of SAS Institute.

[Neredbojias]

To further the education of mankind, sa****@unx.sas. com (Warren Sarle)
vouchsafed:

In article <Xn************ *************** ******@208.49.8 0.251>,
Neredbojias <http://www.neredbojias .com/fliam.php?cat=a lt.html>
writes:

...
Well, I don't actually disagree with you, but in answer to your
original question, I know of no way to get Mozilla, etc., to change
its default behavior in this area.

A sort-of makeshift method I've used before is to incorporate extra
padding and solid-border as a "unity", but this is pretty rudimentary
at best.

Thank you for a helpful response.

What I'm doing now is using {border-style: solid}, putting another
div around it with {border-style: solid} again, and setting different
colors on various edges. It's a nuisance, but in this particular
application, the border colors are an important cue.

Sure. I can't think of any better way to get "multi-colored" borders.
Maybe I'll try that on my next page, just for fun.

--
Neredbojias
Infinity has its limits.