Making default entry in search text box disappear on click

[spence]

Hi All

How do I make it so that when a user clicks in a search text field, the
default entry (in this case "Search") is removed automatically - they
are then faced with a blank search box and can type straight away

Thanks in advance

[Philip Ronan]

"Alan J. Flavell" wrote:

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Philip Ronan wrote:

"Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:

You never heard of such holes? Not very real.

OK please explain what's so insecure about using Javascript to clear the
initial contents of a search box.

What's insecure is allowing an untrusted site to execute javascript on
one's browser. The intended purpose is irrelevant for this. If you
don't yet know this, then you aren't in a position to argue about it.

So ... you're saying that web designers should never use Javascript on the
WWW, because the visitors to their websites will end up running these
scripts on their browsers.

I'm afraid you lost me there. Can you explain how your argument differs
logically from the statement that newsagents should never sell matches
because people that buy them might set themselves on fire?

Perhaps you're confusing "Javascript " with "Java"?

Surely you know how to disable Javascript in your browser. So if you're
really concerned about this then there's a simple solution. I used to keep
it switched off to prevent pop-up ads from appearing, but that was about as
bad as it got. Now I have a browser that blocks pup-ups automatically.

But to return to the topic of this discussion, the OP's search box is still
going to be perfectly usable with Javascript disabled, so nobody's being
excluded. Most visitors (i.e., the ones that have Javascript enabled) will
see things working as intended. The others will be held up by about 1 second
because they will need to delete the pre-filled text. Is that such a big
deal?

--
phil [dot] ronan @ virgin [dot] net
http://vzone.virgin.net/phil.ronan/

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Philip Ronan wrote:

What's insecure is allowing an untrusted site to execute javascript on
one's browser. The intended purpose is irrelevant for this. If you
don't yet know this, then you aren't in a position to argue about it.
So ... you're saying that web designers should never use Javascript on the
WWW,

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the design should never
*rely* on javascript being successfully executed. Using it to provide
optional extra conveniences is perfectly fine.

Keep in mind, additionally, that none of the indexing robots will be
executing your javascript, so anything which *relies* on javascript to
reach a particular resource will not get indexed properly.
Perhaps you're confusing "Javascript " with "Java"?

You're very rude.

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Philip Ronan <in*****@invali d.invalid> wrote:

Did you have something to say about HTML authoring for the WWW?
Sure.

Let's see.
If you want to add a search box to your web pages but you
don't have much space available, here's something you could try:
Create a form with a single INPUT box containing "Search" as the
initial text.

What you should _do_ is to make space, by abandoning wrong ideas about
squeezing essential elements into the size of a small stamp. Do, or do
not; there is no try.

Using "Search" as initial text is simply wrong, since it's defined as
_default_ text. It does not solve the space problem. It does not make
it clear that it is a search box; it is _not_ a label, but initial
content.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

[Philip Ronan]

"Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:

Philip Ronan <in*****@invali d.invalid> wrote:

If you want to add a search box to your web pages but you
don't have much space available, here's something you could try:
Create a form with a single INPUT box containing "Search" as the
initial text.
What you should _do_ is to make space, by abandoning wrong ideas about
squeezing essential elements into the size of a small stamp. Do, or do
not; there is no try.

I don't recall mentioning postage stamps anywhere. In fact this technique
could actually help to free up space so that things *don't* have to be made
excessively small. What's wrong with that?
Using "Search" as initial text is simply wrong, since it's defined as
_default_ text.
Where exactly is this definition you're referring to? In the HTML 4.01
specification, it says:

value = cdata [p.50] [CA] [p.49]
This attribute specifies the initial value [p.220] of the control.
It is optional except when the type attribute has the value "radio"
or "checkbox".
It mentions an "initial value" there, but I can't see the word "default". In
case you're interested, all it says on page 220 is:
In general, a control's "initial value" may be specified with the
control element's value attribute.

Again, it doesn't say anything about this being the "default" value.
It does not solve the space problem.
How so?
It does not make it clear that it is a search box;
Just how clear do things have to be? I think anyone with a brain would be
able to figure it out. What else do you suppose people might mistake this
search box for?
it is _not_ a label, but initial content.

Yes, that's correct. In fact you might like to call it an inventive usage of
initial content that eliminates the need for a label. I'm guessing you might
not, however :-(

--
phil [dot] ronan @ virgin [dot] net
http://vzone.virgin.net/phil.ronan/

[Darin McGrew]

"Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:

it is _not_ a label, but initial content.

Philip Ronan <in*****@invali d.invalid> wrote: Yes, that's correct. In fact you might like to call it an inventive usage of
initial content that eliminates the need for a label. I'm guessing you might
not, however :-(

Rather than using "Search" as the initial content of the text field (and
then having to deal with the problems that creates), why not just use
"Search" as the label on the submit button? It's clear, it's expected, it's
simple, it works for everyone, and it has no unpleasant side effects.
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanford alumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp. com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"Cheaters never win; they just finish first." - Johhny Hart

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Philip Ronan <in*****@invali d.invalid> wrote:

It mentions an "initial value" there, but I can't see the word
"default".

Look for meanings, not words. The "initial value" is the value that is
submitted along with other form data, unless the value is changed.
The common way of expressing this fact is the phrase "default value".

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

[Philip Ronan]

"Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:

Philip Ronan <in*****@invali d.invalid> wrote:

It mentions an "initial value" there, but I can't see the word
"default".

Look for meanings, not words. The "initial value" is the value that is
submitted along with other form data, unless the value is changed.
The common way of expressing this fact is the phrase "default value".

Meanings. OK then. In your last post you said that using "Search" as initial
text is "... simply wrong because it's defined as default text". So where
*is* this definition? Is it perhaps just a figment of your imagination? If
so, then the meaning of your argument is basically "It's simply wrong
because I say so."

I daresay the word "Search" probably wouldn't be used as a search term very
often. An empty string isn't a particularly useful search term either. But
as I keep saying, in this case the initial text is there to identify the
purpose of the search box, so it's serving a useful purpose.

It's also perfectly useable, valid HTML. So why all the fuss?

--
phil [dot] ronan @ virgin [dot] net
http://vzone.virgin.net/phil.ronan/

[Philip Ronan]

"Darin McGrew" wrote:

"Jukka K. Korpela" wrote:

it is _not_ a label, but initial content.

Philip Ronan <in*****@invali d.invalid> wrote:

Yes, that's correct. In fact you might like to call it an inventive usage of
initial content that eliminates the need for a label. I'm guessing you might
not, however :-(

Rather than using "Search" as the initial content of the text field (and
then having to deal with the problems that creates), why not just use
"Search" as the label on the submit button? It's clear, it's expected, it's
simple, it works for everyone, and it has no unpleasant side effects.

You can do that if you like.

You can also omit the submit button altogether. The form can still be
submitted without it. And without any unpleasant side-effects apart from
getting roasted in this NG.

--
phil [dot] ronan @ virgin [dot] net
http://vzone.virgin.net/phil.ronan/

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Philip Ronan <in*****@invali d.invalid> wrote:

Meanings. OK then. In your last post you said that using "Search"
as initial text is "... simply wrong because it's defined as
default text". So where *is* this definition?

In the HTML specification, as I explained. Did you already forget to
look for meanings, not words?

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

[Darin McGrew]

Philip Ronan <in*****@invali d.invalid> wrote:

You can also omit the submit button altogether. The form can still be
submitted without it.

Well, yes. And windows can still be scrolled even when the author removes
the scrollbars.

But it doesn't seem very user-friendly to remove the most obvious and most
familiar mechanisms for submitting a form or scrolling a window.
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanford alumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp. com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"Cheaters never win; they just finish first." - Johhny Hart