I've been searching in vain for a way to present typographically
correct fractions (not resorting to <sup> and <sub> tags) but have been
frustrated by the fact that the glyphs for one-half, one-eighth,
three-quarters, etc. do not display in the correct typeface (or even
consistently the same typeface) and seem totally resistant to attempt
to fix this through CSS:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Style-Type" content="text/css">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en">
<table>
<tr valign="top"><t d>¼</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>½</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>¾</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅓</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅔</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅕</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅖</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅗</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅘</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅙</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅚</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅛</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅜</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>⅝</td></tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>
Any thoughts of a solution (other than using inlines like 1/2, 3/4,
etc. or other hacks)?
Jul 24 '05
33  6632 
David Ross wrote: se*******@gwi.n et wrote:<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html lang="en">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Style-Type" content="text/css">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en">
<table>
<tr valign="top"><t d>¼</td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><t d>½</td></tr>
[snip]<tr valign="top"><t d>⅝</td></tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>
First of all, I hope you have a </head> and <body> between the last
<meta> and the <table>.
Technically not necessary--and neither are the <head> or </body>.
However, it's still weird to include one and not the other.
In our last episode,
<11************ **********@f14g 2000cwb.googleg roups.com>,
the lovely and talented se*******@gwi.n et
broadcast on comp.infosystem s. www.authoring.html: I've been searching in vain for a way to present typographically
correct fractions (not resorting to <sup> and <sub> tags) but have been
frustrated by the fact that the glyphs for one-half, one-eighth,
three-quarters, etc. do not display in the correct typeface (or even
consistently the same typeface) and seem totally resistant to attempt
to fix this through CSS:
You cannot fix it with CSS because it isn't CSS's fault. The
font has to have the characters. No font, of course, has
characters for all the simple fractions. Some have none. Some
have half and fourth, perhaps 3/4. You may find some that have
a few more where the denominator is some small power of two.
For that reason, it is probably a good idea to represent
fractions differently where you will have many different
fractions and not to mix the two in the same context even when
you have a few.
Any thoughts of a solution (other than using inlines like 1/2, 3/4,
etc. or other hacks)?
If you are doing mathematical texts in which fractions composed
with the solidus are not acceptable, HTML is not your best
choice.
--
Lars Eighner ei*****@io.com http://www.larseighner.com/
War on Terrorism: Okay, Unleash OUR Extreme Fundamentalists
"... all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in
their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'" --Jerry Falwell
On 29 Jun 2005 se*******@gwi.n et wrote: I've been searching in vain for a way to present typographically
correct fractions (not resorting to <sup> and <sub> tags) but have been
frustrated by the fact that the glyphs for one-half, one-eighth,
three-quarters, etc. do not display in the correct typeface (or even
consistently the same typeface)
Your problem is not limited to fractions but it can occur with nearly
*every* character. Have a look at http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nht...face-arial.gif
where the browser took the glyphs for non-Western characters from
a completely-different-looking typeface.
You should be happy if the reader's browser and fonts display http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/...a21.html#x2153
in some way. If you want a uniform typeface, use PDF.
Why do you want fractions, anyway? Use the metric system http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/ http://www.metric.org/
and you don't need to bother with fractions.
--
Everybody expects the German Inquisition.
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Andreas Prilop wrote: Your problem is not limited to fractions but it can occur with nearly
*every* character.
Indeed.
Just as a data point here. As I commented before, the 1/8, 3/8, 5/8
and 7/8 characters are in MS's WGL4, but the others in this area are
not, as far as I can tell. By default I had Win Mozilla configured to
use "Arial".
Looking at my test page, it was clear that not only the 1/8...7/8
glyphs but also the 1/3 and 2/3 glyphs were being taken from the same
font, but the fifths and sixths were coming from somewhere else.
So I changed my Mozilla configuration to choose Code2000 instead, and,
sure enough, then they all came out in the same style. (This is not
the place to discuss whether you like that style or not, but they were
the *same*, that's my point).
I then tried "Arial Unicode MS", and again got a consistent
presentation (different, of course, from Code2000, but consistent in
itself). We know from previous discussion why "Arial Unicode MS"
would not be a good choice of font for general use (it has no real
bold or italic faces, they have to be derived from the base font), but
at least this demonstrates the principle as I was telling it before:
same HTML (under control of the author), but different browser
configuration (under control of the reader), means different visual
results.
Why do you want fractions, anyway? Use the metric system
But as you rightly say, the principle is the same for any bunch of
characters/glyphs - so the underlying principles can't be wiped aside
quite so easily as that ;-}
> I then tried "Arial Unicode MS", and again got a consistent presentation (different, of course, from Code2000, but consistent
in itself).
What's Code2000 and how do you set it in Firefox? I know Arial Unicode
MS is common on recent iterations of Windows, but what about Mac OS X?
Can I force the browsers to do this automatically? Probably the answers
to the latter three questions are all "no".
Why do you want fractions, anyway? Use the metric system
Actually, on my website, I need to display both. The whole world
prefers metric except Americans. Unfortunately, most Americans are so
unaccustomed to the metric system that it ends up confusing them.
"Alan J. Flavell" <fl*****@ph.gla .ac.uk> wrote: As far as HTML is concerned,
your &#number; references, such as ⅓ onwards, *are* the
correct way to represent the fraction characters.
I would question the wording "the correct way" vs. "a correct way".
And I'm not quite sure about the correctness. Surely ⅓ is correct
by HTML specifications, but it is a compatibility character, and the
document "Unicode in XML and other Markup Languages" http://www.w3.org/TR/unicode-xml/
recommends _normalization_ for it, with the somewhat hypocritical
comment "As long as fraction slash is supported!" Here normalization
refers to Unicode normalization form KC
So it seems that both the W3C and the Unicode Consortium think that
⅓ should be replaced by 1⁄3 or some equivalent way of
representing the three-character sequence U+0031 U+2044 U+0033
and browsers should take care of rendering it as a conventional
fraction (even without style sheets - and a style sheet would hardly
help here anyway). But they implicitly admit that this doesn't really
work yet.
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Jukka K. Korpela wrote: "Alan J. Flavell" <fl*****@ph.gla .ac.uk> wrote:
As far as HTML is concerned,
your &#number; references, such as ⅓ onwards, *are* the
correct way to represent the fraction characters.
I would question the wording "the correct way" vs. "a correct way".
Thanks for the correction, which I don't disagree with...
And I'm not quite sure about the correctness. Surely ⅓ is correct
by HTML specifications, but it is a compatibility character, and the
document "Unicode in XML and other Markup Languages"
http://www.w3.org/TR/unicode-xml/
recommends _normalization_ for it, with the somewhat hypocritical
comment "As long as fraction slash is supported!" Here normalization
refers to Unicode normalization form KC
So it seems that both the W3C and the Unicode Consortium think that
⅓ should be replaced by 1⁄3 or some equivalent way of
representing the three-character sequence U+0031 U+2044 U+0033
and browsers should take care of rendering it as a conventional
fraction (even without style sheets - and a style sheet would hardly
help here anyway). But they implicitly admit that this doesn't really
work yet.
Right.
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, shamshoon wrote: I then tried "Arial Unicode MS", and again got a consistent
presentation (different, of course, from Code2000, but consistent
in itself).
What's Code2000
what's a search engine? For example
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=code2000
It's a font.
and how do you set it in Firefox?
If you wanted to, you'd first get the font, install it, and then select
it.
I know Arial Unicode MS is common on recent iterations of Windows,
Actually not. To the best of my knowledge it does not come with any MS
OS, but is only licensed with a number of their chargeable products, such
as MS Office etc.
but what about Mac OS X?
I think you'd need to consult a lawyer about that...
Can I force the browsers to do this automatically?
If you're speaking as a web author, then the standard answer applies: on
the web you can not "force" your readers to do ANYTHING, and it is good
that it is so.
Actually, on my website, I need to display both. The whole world
prefers metric except Americans. Unfortunately, most Americans are so
unaccustomed to the metric system that it ends up confusing them.
Then you have a particularly challenging problem, since USA users appear
to be the most likely to have a crippled font installation, and unaware
that they can or should do anything about it. That was a summary of
previous discussions here, as well as my own personal experience of
interactions with some of them.
I recall that M.Crispin (who I believe reads Japanese), author of the IMAP
protocol, somewhat sarcastically remarked that USA users don't need
anything more than us-ascii, with the implication that anything more
would only confuse them. Ho hum.
all the best.
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Alan J. Flavell wrote: I recall that M.Crispin (who I believe reads Japanese), author of the IMAP
protocol, somewhat sarcastically remarked that USA users don't need
anything more than us-ascii, with the implication that anything more
would only confuse them.
However, © ® seem to be widely used even in US-ASCII land. http://www.google.com/search?q=copyr...:microsoft.com
--
Evil® is a registered trademark of the President of the United States.
> On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, shamshoon wrote: Actually, on my website, I need to display both. The whole world
prefers metric except Americans. Unfortunately, most Americans are so
unaccustome d to the metric system that it ends up confusing them.
Alan J. Flavell wrote:
Then you have a particularly challenging problem, since USA users appear
to be the most likely to have a crippled font installation, and unaware
that they can or should do anything about it. That was a summary of
previous discussions here, as well as my own personal experience of
interactions with some of them.
I recall that M.Crispin (who I believe reads Japanese), author of the IMAP
protocol, somewhat sarcastically remarked that USA users don't need
anything more than us-ascii, with the implication that anything more
would only confuse them. Ho hum.
I'm American, and I agree with that...
While trying to make my pages present themselves as best I could I found
that quite a few compromises needed to used. So, ultimately, I gave up
on trying to suppoort Netscape 4.xx this allowed me to used entity
references as defined in HTML 4.01 please see my tables... http://software.seaplusplus.net/code...eferences.html
So, I have settled on the scheme for equations (which exhibit fractions
on steroids) ;-) used in... http://library.seaplusplus.net/physi...elativity.html
Just search on the equals sign to see the treatment of the equations. I
am very anxious to hear any feedback on this scheme.
Thank you...
Rich This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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