Preparing to write a post that blasts CSS.

[dterrors]

I figure before I go and write my summary of why you should go back to
tables and only use CSS for fonts and colors and stuff, I ought to make
sure I've got my facts right. So, please tell me how I can get this:

<div style="border:1 px solid #000;width:100% ">
<table style="backgrou nd:#CABE9E;
margin:10px 10px 10px 10px;
border-bottom:4px solid #000;
border-left:4px solid #000;
border-right:4px solid #000;
border-top:4px solid #000;
width:100%;">
<tr><td>some table stuff...</td><td>spills over in firefox, and
causes everpresent vertical scroll in IE</td></tr></table>
</div>

to look like this:

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" bgcolor="000000 "
width="100%"><t r><td>
<table bgcolor="ffffff " cellpadding="8" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><t r><td>
<table bgcolor="000000 " cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"
width="100%"><t r><td>
<table bgcolor="CABE9E " cellpadding="4" width="100%"><t r><td>some
table stuff...</td><td>spills over in firefox, and causes everpresent
vertical scroll in IE</td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
</td></tr></table>
</td></tr></table>

Try them in both IE and Firefox.

Apparently the spec for CSS says that the border and margins shouldn't
be counted when calcing the size of the div/table. Take a look at this
(these) bug reports:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258523

But IE does something bad too- notice that you get a horizontal scroll
bar at the bottom, no matter how wide your screen goes (with the CSS
version).

But the table version looks fine in both browsers.

Anyway, if I'm missing something that would fix this, tell me.

[logic_earth]

dt******@hotmai l.com wrote:

I figure before I go and write my summary of why you should go back to
tables and only use CSS for fonts and colors and stuff, I ought to make
sure I've got my facts right.
Just because you can't use CSS to make a layout doesn't mean everyone
else can't.
Apparently the spec for CSS says that the border and margins shouldn't
be counted when calcing the size of the div/table.

Infact they do margin/border/padding add to the width/height.
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/box.html

P.S. The table version makes me sick it takes four table to do
something so simple.

[logic_earth]

Quote From: W3C | http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/box.html

"The box width is given by the sum of the left and right margins,
border, and padding, and the content width. The height is given by the
sum of the top and bottom margins, border, and padding, and the content
height."

[Lauri Raittila]

in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.stylesheets, dt******@hotmai l.com
wrote:

I figure before I go and write my summary of why you should go back to
tables and only use CSS for fonts and colors and stuff, I ought to make
sure I've got my facts right. So, please tell me how I can get this:
You didn't. It is quite arrogant to complain about CSS, when you don't
know even the very basics. And even for advanced stuff, it is never fault
of CSS, but browers support.

Tables are not fully supported by browsers, I think that CSS is at least
as well supported.

[failure]
to look like this:

[overcomplicated tables, you could have cut at least 2. Of course, then
you would have to know how to use tables.]

div {border:1px solid black;backgroun d:#fff;padding: 8px;}
table {border:4px solid #000;padding:4p x;background:#C ABE9E;width:100 %;}

<div>
<table><tr><td> some
table stuff...</td><td>spills over in firefox, and causes everpresent
vertical scroll in IE</td></tr></table>
</div>
Try them in both IE and Firefox.
Didn't as you didn't give any URL. But it was clear what your problem
was. Simple cure is KISS.
Anyway, if I'm missing something

You didn't miss my killfile.
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Kohtuuhintainen yksiö/huone haussa Oulusta syyskuusta eteenpäin.
Searching places to sleep on axis Bonn - Tsech - Poland - baltic sea in
july

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

dt******@hotmai l.com wrote:

I figure before I go and write my summary of why you should go back
to tables and only use CSS for fonts and colors and stuff, I ought
to make sure I've got my facts right.

I cannot make a nice wooden cabinet. I blame my chisel.

Next time, make sample pages and post them so we can see what else
might be wrong with your code, missing DOCTYPE for example. Thanks for
your indulgence.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

[logic_earth]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Next time, make sample pages and post them so we can see what else
might be wrong with your code, missing DOCTYPE for example. Thanks for
your indulgence.

If you add a strict DOCTYPE the table fails to work (well not on IE of
course).
However that is because he failed to put '#' (bgcolor="00000 0").

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

logic_earth wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Next time, make sample pages and post them so we can see what
else might be wrong with your code, missing DOCTYPE for example.
Thanks for your indulgence.

If you add a strict DOCTYPE the table fails to work (well not on IE
of course). However that is because he failed to put '#'
(bgcolor="00000 0").

One must repair errors as well. <g>

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

[dterrors]

Your html still has the infinite horizontal scroll bar problem in IE.
It may be simpler but it solves nothing.

[dterrors]

All this says is that the "box width" is calculated by including the
margins and border. It doesn't say that when an outer div is deciding
how wide to be, it should include the inner div/table's border's and
margins. In other words, the outer div is supposed to ignore the
inner div's border and margin even though it's part of the "box width".
Seriously, look at the firefox bug url I gave you.

[Lauri Raittila]

in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.stylesheets, dt******@hotmai l.com
wrote:

Your html still has the infinite horizontal scroll bar problem in IE.
It may be simpler but it solves nothing.

I was too soon to say yoy didn't miss my killfile (forgot to put you
there apparently), but
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~laurirai...overimage.html

Google for quirks mode.

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Kohtuuhintainen yksiö/huone haussa Oulusta syyskuusta eteenpäin.
Searching places to sleep on axis Bonn - Tsech - Poland - baltic sea in
july