I am a bit curious about this.
The graphic design people I work with say it is their preferred font for
web pages. The reason being that it is "kinder" to the eye both in terms
of shape and size.
The HTML "hardcore elititst" profess that it is a useless font because
it is too big compared to other fonts.
Personally I do not care one way or the other, but I generally trust
graphic designers more than programmers and rules lawyers when it comes
to pure design.
It seems to me that the only argument against using Verdana is that a
large number of browsers do not support it and therefore it causes their
pages to render with a very small font.
Can anyone honestly say they do not have the Verdana font installed?
Jul 21 '05
300  18473 
Steve Pugh wrote: Ståle Sæbøe <ot*****@tdz.no > wrote:Not completely, the design of the font itself is said to promote
readability .
Yes. Verdana was designed to be readable at small font sizes. Do you
see how this leads to a catch 22?
It leads to a discussuion of wether the user or the designer should
control which font should be used. This is nowhere near a catch 22
unless the best font is the one that noone can use.
The only statistics I have seen is that 2% of users do not have it
installed. Give or take 2% it does not make a huge difference unless you
have a very specific target group, which in turn would be the exception
to the rule ...
Still not convinced :)
Ståle Sæbøe <ot*****@tdz.no > wrote: Spartanicus wrote:
For me that test isn't convincing if the font size is set at 86%.
Why not 100%?
Because if the text is at 100% there's no problem. The fallback font
will be displayed just fine.
The normal situation is that designers want Verdana displayed at some
smaller size (typically 9px - 12px compared with the common browser
default of 16px). In those case Verdana may be legible but the
fallback font often isn't. Take the Verdana page from the previous example and view it on a
computer with a high resolution screen like the Dell Inspiron 9300
Laptops with the WUXGA option (resolution is approx 150PPI), using the
out of the box browser serif font setting.
I do not downsize the Verdana font for the main texts. It is perfectly
fine with 100%. I use 120 PPI myself and have no problem with 100% Verdana.
Of course you don't. That's not the problem. The problem is when you
specify Verdana and specify a smaller than default font size. Then you
get a problem when Verdana is removed.
But most designers think that Verdana at 100% looks too big and so
insist on a smaller size. Heck, often designers insist that Arial or
TNR at 100% is too big...
Steve
--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor
Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>
Spartanicus wrote: Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > wrote:
Use Verdana, set a font-size that makes Verdana look right to you. Now
delete Verdana from your system (or just comment it out in your
stylesheet) . Does the text still look right with your fallback font?
For me that test isn't convincing if the font size is set at 86%.
Some other tests:
Using a browser that has an appropriately sized serif font specified as
the default font, create a page that uses a Verdana font, size it so
that it looks nice. Now configure Verdana as you preferred font in your
browser's preferences, set the default size so that it looks right with
a webpage that does not specify a font size. Now view the page where you
use the sized Verdana font.
Take the Verdana page from the previous example and view it on a
computer with a high resolution screen like the Dell Inspiron 9300
Laptops with the WUXGA option (resolution is approx 150PPI), using the
out of the box browser serif font setting.
Both tests result in nigh unreadable text. The last test is very useful
to convince designers and clients of the error of their ways, it doesn't
take much imagination to see that type of computer in the hands of the
higher echelons of the corporate world, the type of people that can make
or break the success of a web site.
your test sounds very interesting, unfortunatly i dont have a 150dpi
laptop at hand. maybe you could make some convincing screenshots of your
test results.
looking forward to be convninced :)
gr
martin
Ståle Sæbøe <ot*****@tdz.no > wrote: I do not downsize the Verdana font for the main texts. It is perfectly
fine with 100%. I use 120 PPI myself and have no problem with 100% Verdana.
Your screen resolution causes you to see things differently than most
people, approx 90PPI is a more typical resolution. If you had a 90PPI
screen you'd have a problem with Verdana @ 100%.
--
Spartanicus
"Martin!" <ma**********@h ome.nl.knip.kni p.knip> wrote: your test sounds very interesting, unfortunatly i dont have a 150dpi
laptop at hand. maybe you could make some convincing screenshots of your
test results.
A screenshot of a 150PPI screen displayed on a 90PPI screen is identical
to a native 90PPI display :)
--
Spartanicus
Steve Pugh wrote: Curt Balluff <po**@curt-balluff.de> wrote:
Use em or px
don't use pt
px is every bit as bad as pt. Em has bugs in IE. % is the best choice.
Steve
maybe if you want your site to be accessable by the largest possible
audience, but not many sites aim at 'everybody'.
it is also not easy to make a site 'right' for resolution varying from
mobile phone to WHUXGA, therefor people often settle for a range between
VGA and SVGA. in a small range like this font sizes can be defined with
an absolute unit without causing the site to be unreadable.
thus, what is best depends on your quality defenitions which are defined
by your audience (or client).
gr
martin
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005, Martin! wrote: your test sounds very interesting, unfortunatly i dont have a 150dpi
laptop at hand. maybe you could make some convincing screenshots of
your test results.
This is a wind-up, isn't it?
Or don't you see the illogicality of your suggestion?
Try viewing your own display at double the normal viewing distance -
that might give you *some* idea how it would look at 150dpi. Just
taking a 150dpi screenshot, and viewing it at your usual 72dpi or
whatever it is that you've got, doesn't prove much at all.
Spartanicus wrote: "Martin!" <ma**********@h ome.nl.knip.kni p.knip> wrote:
your test sounds very interesting, unfortunatly i dont have a 150dpi
laptop at hand. maybe you could make some convincing screenshots of your
test results.
A screenshot of a 150PPI screen displayed on a 90PPI screen is identical
to a native 90PPI display :)
ic .. so i misunderstood some units, doesnt make screenshots of these
test less interesting.
Ståle Sæbøe <ot*****@tdz.no > wrote: The HTML "hardcore elititst" profess that it is a useless font because
it is too big compared to other fonts.
Not completely, the design of the font itself is said to promote
readability. This is actually a kind of science and has to do with the
actual shaping of the letters, text flow and how the eye captures it.
The Verdana is best for the screen, Times is best on paper (or so the
"experts" say).
The proper scientific tests that have been conducted do not confirm a
better legibility for Verdana, they do confirm that users have a certain
preference for Verdana on esthetic grounds.
--
Spartanicus
"Martin!" <ma**********@h ome.nl.knip.kni p.knip> wrote: A screenshot of a 150PPI screen displayed on a 90PPI screen is identical
to a native 90PPI display :)
ic .. so i misunderstood some units, doesnt make screenshots of these
test less interesting.
You clearly are not understanding the issue.
--
Spartanicus This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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