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View Web Site without domain name

tharden3
916 512MB
I wanted to show the community my Web Site, so they can tell me what needs to be modified, what looks good, etc. Do I absolutely need a domain name for this? Is there another way besides having to take my HTML and CSS and post it in notepad, then run it in a browser? Even if you did do it that way... you wouldn't be able to view the pictures, right? I'm starting to think I need a domain name....

P.S. How does that work? How do are people able to view the pictures, images, text, etc. of a website? When you register with a domain name, is your site saved to some server somewhere or something? I don't get how it works.... Do they access it directly from my computer????
Jul 31 '08 #1
59 2580
JosAH
11,448 Expert 8TB
Ask your ISP for your public IP address and publish it here and fire up your server(s).

kind regards,

Jos
Jul 31 '08 #2
Markus
6,050 Expert 4TB
A domain name is only one part of a website; you need hosting as well. The domain is the thing you type in the url, the hosting is where all magic happens. You can find a lot of free hosts by googling for 'free webhosts'.
Jul 31 '08 #3
tharden3
916 512MB
A domain name is only one part of a website; you need hosting as well. The domain is the thing you type in the url, the hosting is where all magic happens. You can find a lot of free hosts by googling for 'free webhosts'.
I looked into it, and I think google even has a lot of material to help with web building. If I'm not mistaken, you can register with google for $10 a year. It comes with all these handy apps too ;)
thanks for the help markusn00b!
Jul 31 '08 #4
tharden3
916 512MB
Ask your ISP for your public IP address and publish it here and fire up your server(s).

kind regards,

Jos
cool beans .
Jul 31 '08 #5
Markus
6,050 Expert 4TB
I looked into it, and I think google even has a lot of material to help with web building. If I'm not mistaken, you can register with google for $10 a year. It comes with all these handy apps too ;)
thanks for the help markusn00b!
That doesn't sound realistic (for a domain name, yes, but for hosting as well.. no).

Does that fee include hosting?
Jul 31 '08 #6
tharden3
916 512MB
That doesn't sound realistic (for a domain name, yes, but for hosting as well.. no).

Does that fee include hosting?
probably not for hosting (I don't think). You just get a domain name, and a lot of great apps. I'll check, but I'm pretty sure the hosting is a no-go.
Jul 31 '08 #7
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
Do I absolutely need a domain name for this?
Domain names are for user friendliness (among other things). It always gets translated into your IP address by domain name servers(DNS). So, no, you don't need a domain name if you don't care about general audience access.
Is there another way besides having to take my HTML and CSS and post it in notepad, then run it in a browser?
Don't know what you mean.
P.S. How does that work? How do are people able to view the pictures, images, text, etc. of a website?
A server is needed somewhere to "serve" your html, css, scripts, images, etc. to the network. This server can be at your home or anywhere in the world. Some ISPs don't let you serve a web site from your home. This is why many spend a few dollars and rent space elsewhere. In my area, I have ATT and Charter Cable. ATT lets you run servers. Charter does not.

When you get a domain name, the name provider will ask you where you want your name to point to. So if you sign up for one from GoDaddy, you still need to rent a server from them or someone else. The general advice is to get it from somewhere else so no one entity controls your stuff. But it is on the rented server where all your pages/images are stored.

What you do is do the editing on your home computer, then upload that to the server for testing, though you can do much of that testing on your home computer.

If you wanted to run your own server from home, and your ISP allows it, it's not difficult to set up at all, though not obvious to everyone. In your case, with limited viewing and reasonable upload speeds, this is an option.
Jul 31 '08 #8
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
I forgot to add this. Don't get confused between domain names and IP addresses. IP addresses are assigned by your ISP. Domain names are 'registered' with a service that associates your IP address with that name and lets every other server know about it.
Jul 31 '08 #9
tharden3
916 512MB
Domain names are for user friendliness (among other things). It always gets translated into your IP address by domain name servers(DNS). So, no, you don't need a domain name if you don't care about general audience access.
Don't know what you mean.
A server is needed somewhere to "serve" your html, css, scripts, images, etc. to the network. This server can be at your home or anywhere in the world. Some ISPs don't let you serve a web site from your home. This is why many spend a few dollars and rent space elsewhere. In my area, I have ATT and Charter Cable. ATT lets you run servers. Charter does not.

When you get a domain name, the name provider will ask you where you want your name to point to. So if you sign up for one from GoDaddy, you still need to rent a server from them or someone else. The general advice is to get it from somewhere else so no one entity controls your stuff. But it is on the rented server where all your pages/images are stored.

What you do is do the editing on your home computer, then upload that to the server for testing, though you can do much of that testing on your home computer.

If you wanted to run your own server from home, and your ISP allows it, it's not difficult to set up at all, though not obvious to everyone. In your case, with limited viewing and reasonable upload speeds, this is an option.
wow, thanks a lot. That confused me for the longest time. You don't know unless you ask, so I asked. Thanks for answering.
Jul 31 '08 #10
tharden3
916 512MB
Is a server actual hardware? Or is it something set up on your PC? Or is it both?
Jul 31 '08 #11
Markus
6,050 Expert 4TB
Is a server actual hardware? Or is it something set up on your PC? Or is it both?
I believe you can turn a regular pc into a server? Is that true?

A server is something like Apache.

Do you have a localhost setup?
Jul 31 '08 #12
tharden3
916 512MB
I believe you can turn a regular pc into a server? Is that true?

A server is something like Apache.

Do you have a localhost setup?
i don't think so... The "turn the PC into a server" thing would be nice though. I just want some simple web sites that would get minimal viewing. Nothing big. At the moment, it's more like practice and learning the ropes.
Jul 31 '08 #13
Curtis Rutland
3,256 Expert 2GB
Are you using XP Pro?

You can go to Add/Remove Programs, and the Add/Remove Windows Components and check "Internet Information Services (IIS)". Once that installs, you now have a webserver.

You can configure it by typing "inetmgr" in the "Run" prompt.

If you are behind a router, you need to make sure that the router forwards traffic on port 80 to the internal IP of the computer that is running the webserver.

Then you can browse your website by using the external ip instead of a domain name

You can find your external IP from http://whatismyip.com/

Have fun =D
Jul 31 '08 #14
Atli
5,058 Expert 4TB
I believe you can turn a regular pc into a server? Is that true?

A server is something like Apache.

Do you have a localhost setup?
A HTTP server is really just a piece of software (like Apache) that can be run by any computer (given that the computer can run it).

Many of us developers have indeed turned our computers into a HTTP server by installing software like Apache on localhost to develop on.
If your able to do "http://localhost/" and get a web-page served (other than a 40x error that is), then your computer is in fact a HTTP server.

If your computer is directly connected to the Internet, then all you would have to do is configure your firewalls to allow port 80 through, and your server would be accessible on the internet via your IP address.

If your connected through a router, via a DSL connection or something like that, it is very likely that you will have to contact your ISP and ask for a public IP address and configure you router so that it assigns this IP to the computer that is to act as a server.
Jul 31 '08 #15
tharden3
916 512MB
Are you using XP Pro?

You can go to Add/Remove Programs, and the Add/Remove Windows Components and check "Internet Information Services (IIS)". Once that installs, you now have a webserver.

You can configure it by typing "inetmgr" in the "Run" prompt.

If you are behind a router, you need to make sure that the router forwards traffic on port 80 to the internal IP of the computer that is running the webserver.

Then you can browse your website by using the external ip instead of a domain name

You can find your external IP from http://whatismyip.com/

Have fun =D
gracias .
Jul 31 '08 #16
tharden3
916 512MB
What kind of computer do you need to do this sort of thing? Like maybe running Apache or something? I have an HP desktop with 512MB RAM and a 2.2GHz processor. Lame I know, but it gets me by. I was planning on buying a new computer, but it'd be very costly for me at the moment, and there is nothing wrong with the one I have now.
Jul 31 '08 #17
Curtis Rutland
3,256 Expert 2GB
Unless it is going to be real high-demand web apps, with lots of traffic, practically any computer can be a webserver.
Jul 31 '08 #18
tharden3
916 512MB
Unless it is going to be real high-demand web apps, with lots of traffic, practically any computer can be a webserver.
That's good news. Like I said, very minimal traffic, and low-quality functions. That doesn't mean it's not going to look high-quality, it's just there won't be any big apps on it. I need to learn what I'm doing before I try anything serious, you know?
Jul 31 '08 #19
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
I'm not a big fan of pre-packaged things but XAMPP has a lot of stuff going for it.
Jul 31 '08 #20
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
Your lame computer is high-end to me. I run 3 servers with 550Mhz PIIIs and 512Mb ram. Using FreeBSD though so that's a plus.
Jul 31 '08 #21
tharden3
916 512MB
Your lame computer is high-end to me. I run 3 servers with 550Mhz PIIIs and 512Mb ram. Using FreeBSD though so that's a plus.
!!!!!
Well, I have no room to talk anymore!
Jul 31 '08 #22
Atli
5,058 Expert 4TB
I had a server running Fedora that had a 133MHz CPU and like 64MB ram... and it worked great! (well, great might be over-stating it, but it worked :P)

It broke in an earthquake the other day tho :(
(And by broke I mean; fell of the desk and smashed)

The moral of the story being... there is really no need for spectacular hardware for a low-usage HTTP server. Any old PC will do the trick.
Jul 31 '08 #23
tharden3
916 512MB
I had a server running Fedora that had a 133MHz CPU and like 64MB ram... and it worked great! (well, great might be over-stating it, but it worked :P)

It broke in an earthquake the other day tho :(
(And by broke I mean; fell of the desk and smashed)

The moral of the story being... there is really no need for spectacular hardware for a low-usage HTTP server. Any old PC will do the trick.
Sweet. Well I am excited to get started. What exactly do I need to pull this off? Obviously, I need to run a server.... Apache? Something else? I guess you guys already gave me a lot of resources in the above posts...
Jul 31 '08 #24
Curtis Rutland
3,256 Expert 2GB
If I was going to do a simple Apache setup, I'd get an old computer. I'd do a server install (no gnome or kde, just command line) of Ubuntu or some such distro, and install SSH. Then I'd just leave it with no monitor.

Then just get putty and WinSCP, and control it from your Windows desktop.

Depending on your skills and what you want to do should determine what Web Server you use.

I mostly use IIS (like I mentioned above) because I do asp.net development. And, IIS can be configured to work with PHP.

If you are going to be doing a lot of PHP, you might want to do LAMP (linux, apache, MySql, and php),

For jsp get Tomcat.

HTML+CSS+Javascript can be done with any webserver,
Jul 31 '08 #25
Atli
5,058 Expert 4TB
Yup. Using Linux for a HTTP server is great because many distros include Apache, so you only have to select it when your installing the OS.
I've used Fedora in the past and I really liked it. It's one of the major distros as well so there is a lot of support available online.

Unless your using .Net, in which case you are pretty much forced to use IIS. In which case I would use Windows Vista (or it's server equivalent). It has IIS 7 which is a major improvement over the old versions (in my experience at least).

Whichever you use, you should also look into setting up a FTP server. Then you could just set up a FTP account for the web root and upload stuff from your desktop computer.

My old server was up for like a year without me ever having to so much as attach a keyboard to it.
Jul 31 '08 #26
tharden3
916 512MB
Yup. Using Linux for a HTTP server is great because many distros include Apache, so you only have to select it when your installing the OS.
I've used Fedora in the past and I really liked it. It's one of the major distros as well so there is a lot of support available online.

Unless your using .Net, in which case you are pretty much forced to use IIS. In which case I would use Windows Vista (or it's server equivalent). It has IIS 7 which is a major improvement over the old versions (in my experience at least).

Whichever you use, you should also look into setting up a FTP server. Then you could just set up a FTP account for the web root and upload stuff from your desktop computer.

My old server was up for like a year without me ever having to so much as attach a keyboard to it.
Not all that interested in the .Net thing... so I'll probably go with the other option. I already have Ubuntu on my PC, but I'm not sure that I selected Apache as part of the install. Can I just go download Apache anyway?
Jul 31 '08 #27
Curtis Rutland
3,256 Expert 2GB
IIS 7 is amazing, especially if you are used to IIS 5 from XP.

The server equiv would be Windows Server 2008 (which is also really great if you're into windows servers).

The one strange thing is that IIS 7 doesn't support FTP sites. You have to install IIS 6 for that. Weird, huh?
Jul 31 '08 #28
Curtis Rutland
3,256 Expert 2GB
If you have ubuntu, you should just use Synaptic and search for "apache."

EDIT:
Or:
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install apache2

You should find what you want.
Jul 31 '08 #29
tharden3
916 512MB
If you have ubuntu, you should just use Synaptic and search for "apache."

You should find what you want.
alrighty, thanks .
Jul 31 '08 #30
Banfa
9,056 Expert Mod 8TB
How are you connecting to the internet? ISPs often provide some free web-space.

If that is not an option then try the advanced search at http://www.free-webhosts.com/ to find a free web-host with facilities you want.

The term server is over subscribed, it can mean the hardware or the software and in fact various different kinds of server (like database server).

On the project I work on we have a server (1 physical machine) which runs a number of different software servers (IIS, SQL Server 2005 plus proprietary communications software). But the system has been designed so that if load increases all the different bits of software can be split out onto separate hardware servers and if it increases more then those servers can be replaced with server clusters, that is several different computers that appear as 1 destination on the network.

With something like Apache you can use virtual hosts, this is where you direct the server to do different things depending on the domain name or IP address it was contacted through and allows you to set-up more than one web-site with-in the same server.

And finally with the advent of virtualisation you can use 1 actual computer to run several apparent computers as virtual machines. In fact my company does this to provide subversion servers to different projects the advantage of that being that a low usage server doesn't make full use of the hardware it is on, by putting several virtual physical servers that all have low usage on 1 actual physical computer you can cut down your hardware and support costs with seeing any performance loss.

Anyway so the term server can mean a piece of software or a shared piece of software or a physical computer or a group of physical computers or a shared piece of a physical computer depending on context.


Most computers have the ability run run all sorts of server software, running these bits of software is not normally too much of a burden for only a few connections. It is when the software is dealing with large multiples of connections that your hardware needs to get top of the range.


Whether you set-up your own server at home or acquire space on someone else's server is your choice and is dependent on various factors, like does your ISPs T&Cs allow you to server data through your connection, many consumer ISPs don't what you want from a host how much time you have available to put into running it, how much money you have to spend.
Jul 31 '08 #31
tharden3
916 512MB
I don't know if this matters, but Ubuntu technically isn't on a partitioned hard drive. It is installed within Windows using Wubi software. Once it's installed in Wubi on windows, it sets aside a certain amount of space for Ubuntu, and Ubuntu is accessed at the boot screen. So Ubuntu actually runs, looks, and acts as if it is on a partition, but it's not. Will this affect the server I'm setting up?
Jul 31 '08 #32
tharden3
916 512MB
How are you connecting to the internet? ISPs often provide some free web-space.

If that is not an option then try the advanced search at http://www.free-webhosts.com/ to find a free web-host with facilities you want.

The term server is over subscribed, it can mean the hardware or the software and in fact various different kinds of server (like database server).

On the project I work on we have a server (1 physical machine) which runs a number of different software servers (IIS, SQL Server 2005 plus proprietary communications software). But the system has been designed so that if load increases all the different bits of software can be split out onto separate hardware servers and if it increases more then those servers can be replaced with server clusters, that is several different computers that appear as 1 destination on the network.

With something like Apache you can use virtual hosts, this is where you direct the server to do different things depending on the domain name or IP address it was contacted through and allows you to set-up more than one web-site with-in the same server.

And finally with the advent of virtualisation you can use 1 actual computer to run several apparent computers as virtual machines. In fact my company does this to provide subversion servers to different projects the advantage of that being that a low usage server doesn't make full use of the hardware it is on, by putting several virtual physical servers that all have low usage on 1 actual physical computer you can cut down your hardware and support costs with seeing any performance loss.

Anyway so the term server can mean a piece of software or a shared piece of software or a physical computer or a group of physical computers or a shared piece of a physical computer depending on context.


Most computers have the ability run run all sorts of server software, running these bits of software is not normally too much of a burden for only a few connections. It is when the software is dealing with large multiples of connections that your hardware needs to get top of the range.


Whether you set-up your own server at home or acquire space on someone else's server is your choice and is dependent on various factors, like does your ISPs T&Cs allow you to server data through your connection, many consumer ISPs don't what you want from a host how much time you have available to put into running it, how much money you have to spend.
Interesting. I was really confused about the term 'server'. I've seen it used to name a physical machine, or several virtual machines, and I got so confused. Thanks for clearing it up though. I guess some company like Myspace would need a huge number of very large servers huh? But Bobby-Sue's Computer Shack down the street could run everything they need on an old desktop.

I get High Speed Internet from Cox Cable... they provide a router with internet acess and everything. So basically I need to verify with them that I'm allowed/able to set up my own server?
Jul 31 '08 #33
Curtis Rutland
3,256 Expert 2GB
It's a good idea to verify that you are allowed to, but be prepared for them to tell you that you need to upgrade to a business class connection. (Basically all that is is a static IP.)
Jul 31 '08 #34
Banfa
9,056 Expert Mod 8TB
I get High Speed Internet from Cox Cable... they provide a router with internet acess and everything. So basically I need to verify with them that I'm allowed/able to set up my own server?
Well basically yes. However they provide free webspace http://www.cox.com/HighSpeedInternet/, I have to say I haven't read every post of this thread so I don't know if you have said what you need in a website. Your first post seemed to suggest it was more a sort of HTML testing ground at this stage than a huge dynamic PHP/MySQL powered website so are your sure you need/want to set-up your own server would the free web space do what you need for now and allow you to get your pages on the web without the delay hassle of setting up a server (actually setting up the web server probably is that big a delay but getting all the external set-up to get traffic directed to your server could take a few days).

From what I am reading you seem to be jumping onto the "! have to set-up a server" path without considering other options.
Jul 31 '08 #35
tharden3
916 512MB
Well basically yes. However they provide free webspace http://www.cox.com/HighSpeedInternet/, I have to say I haven't read every post of this thread so I don't know if you have said what you need in a website. Your first post seemed to suggest it was more a sort of HTML testing ground at this stage than a huge dynamic PHP/MySQL powered website so are your sure you need/want to set-up your own server would the free web space do what you need for now and allow you to get your pages on the web without the delay hassle of setting up a server (actually setting up the web server probably is that big a delay but getting all the external set-up to get traffic directed to your server could take a few days).

From what I am reading you seem to be jumping onto the "! have to set-up a server" path without considering other options.
hmm, what's the difference between a server or if I got free web hosting? Is a server strictly for heavy-duty web sites? Your right, all I need is to test or run my Web Sites (simple sites mind you). A server can come later on when I'm serious about it.
Jul 31 '08 #36
Banfa
9,056 Expert Mod 8TB
A server is either for if you want to run you own server, or if you have so much web traffic/such a large site that it makes economic sense to run your own server.

Otherwise there are plenty of free and/or relatively cheap options out there like using the free webspace you already have available to you.

Note though that often free ISP web-space is very feature deficient but I posted a link earlier in the thread to a place where you can look you free web hosts with whatever features you want.

Select something that suites your needs, so I would suggest for now use the free web space your ISP provides you until you get to the point where it can not support your site.
Jul 31 '08 #37
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
I don't know if this matters, but Ubuntu technically isn't on a partitioned hard drive. It is installed within Windows using Wubi software.
That's if you are planning on dual booting with Windows. Ubuntu, itself, is a standalone OS. If you are going to use Linux as a server, you can't be dual booting cause you'll lose the server side when you switch to Windows.

Of course, there's no reason you can't just run Linux/Ubuntu and ditch Windows altogether.
Aug 1 '08 #38
tharden3
916 512MB
That's if you are planning on dual booting with Windows. Ubuntu, itself, is a standalone OS. If you are going to use Linux as a server, you can't be dual booting cause you'll lose the server side when you switch to Windows.

Of course, there's no reason you can't just run Linux/Ubuntu and ditch Windows altogether.
Well, I know Ubuntu is a standalone OS. I just didn't know if the way I had it on my system would effect the server. What I really should do is purchase an old computer really cheap, and just use that for all my server needs.
Aug 1 '08 #39
Curtis Rutland
3,256 Expert 2GB
...and just use that for all my server needs.
Well, like Banfa said, are you sure that you really need to have your own? If your ISP provides free webspace, you don't need anything more for simple stuff.

You only need your own when you really want to have control, or need to customize your stuff. I run a small server out of my house, but since I have a dynamic IP, it's not great for serious stuff. So I have hosting through 1and1.com, where I keep my real stuff. ($20 for my plan, includes a MSSQL server db)

By the way, for local testing HTML/CSS, you don't need a web server. You only need that when you are going to use some kind of server page, like PHP or ASP.
Aug 1 '08 #40
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
You have to be careful with free web hosts because they sometimes insert markup that causes IE to go into quirks and other issues.
Aug 1 '08 #41
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
What I really should do is purchase an old computer really cheap, and just use that for all my server needs.
Just find someone upgrading to Vista and see if they'll give you their "old" computer for free. That's how I got 3 new desktops and two notebooks in the past year.
Aug 1 '08 #42
tharden3
916 512MB
Well, like Banfa said, are you sure that you really need to have your own? If your ISP provides free webspace, you don't need anything more for simple stuff.

You only need your own when you really want to have control, or need to customize your stuff. I run a small server out of my house, but since I have a dynamic IP, it's not great for serious stuff. So I have hosting through 1and1.com, where I keep my real stuff. ($20 for my plan, includes a MSSQL server db)

By the way, for local testing HTML/CSS, you don't need a web server. You only need that when you are going to use some kind of server page, like PHP or ASP.
yea, I figured that. I just think I'll stick with free web hosting for now. I don't need a server at the moment. Probably won't need one for 8 months to a year.
Aug 1 '08 #43
tharden3
916 512MB
Just find someone upgrading to Vista and see if they'll give you their "old" computer for free. That's how I got 3 new desktops and two notebooks in the past year.
wow, seriously? You just ask around???
Aug 1 '08 #44
tharden3
916 512MB
You have to be careful with free web hosts because they sometimes insert markup that causes IE to go into quirks and other issues.
I definitely don't need that mess. I need a clean, straight-forward free web host for pretty basic web design. I'll look around for a reliable one.
Aug 1 '08 #45
eWish
971 Expert 512MB
Once you get your computer setup as a server and is connected to the internet you have to take into account security. Your system will now be subjected to all of the security issues that most, if not all hosting companies have.

So, before you go to far I would suggest researching that aspect of things as well. It might be in your best interest to get a hosting package somewhere.

--Kevin
Aug 1 '08 #46
tharden3
916 512MB
Once you get your computer setup as a server and is connected to the internet you have to take into account security. Your system will now be subjected to all of the security issues that most, if not all hosting companies have.

So, before you go to far I would suggest researching that aspect of things as well. It might be in your best interest to get a hosting package somewhere.

--Kevin
Hmmm, if I get serious about it, I'll search for some free server/security packages. If that fails, I wouldn't mind spending a little money on good software. Again, this step probably won't be for about 8 months to a year. I need to learn HTML, CSS, Javascript, PHP, and MySQL. I need to know them inside and out. It would be pointless to spend money on hardware and software that I couldn't use to it's full potential because of lack of knowledge.
Aug 1 '08 #47
acoder
16,027 Expert Mod 8TB
I definitely don't need that mess. I need a clean, straight-forward free web host for pretty basic web design. I'll look around for a reliable one.
110mb might be a good choice then.

btw, there's a lot of technical content here. Perhaps this belongs to Misc. rather than the Cafe.
Aug 1 '08 #48
drhowarddrfine
7,435 Expert 4TB
wow, seriously? You just ask around???
Didn't have to. Most of the people just asked me if I wanted it when the subject of getting a new computer came up. One or two of them I just said something like "Well, I'll take your old one if your just getting rid of it."

Windows users is soooooo stupid. :)
Aug 1 '08 #49
Curtis Rutland
3,256 Expert 2GB
Windows users is soooooo stupid. :)
As a .NET developer, I resent that remark _o
<thought bubble>
or is it "resemble"
</thought bubble>
Aug 1 '08 #50

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