375  18192 
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:24:14 -0600, "Mark A" <no****@nowhere .com>
wrote: Unfortunatel y, most "DBA's" don't understand the nature of the application
well enough, and they don't understand enough about how optimizers work, to
make these decisions on a case by case basis. Many DBA's are looking for a
single rule they can follow in every circumstance. IMO, these people are not
real DBA's, and should consider becoming a UNIX/Linux Administrator.
If you are involved in remote maintenance, the customer bought the
application, the application is just a black box. Yet, when there are
performance problems invariably the DBA is blamed, while the vendor
plays the usual cover your ass game.
IMO, you are -as usual- generalizing way too much, and even worse,
your judgement of DBAs must be considered as offending and insulting.
But then of course you are only 'no****@nowhere .com'
--
Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 13:27:05 -0600, Mark A interested us by writing:
I have seen 9i and 10g shops that don't use RMAN.
So have I. Generally for one of two reasons:
1) As a result of their experience with RMAN in Oracle8. (And, of course,
since it was not ready for prime time then, obviously it can't have
improved in the mean time. <g>)
2) They have their own way of doing backups, and are happy to pay money,
either to a third party vendor or to their development staff, to keep it
going. (Unfortunately in my experience, often without a restore mechanism.)
Funny that companies go out of their way to get the lastest verion of
some graphically-based OSs which provide less-than minimal incremental
benefit to the business (except perhaps more efficient ways of obtaining
RSIs) but refuse to use, or even to consider, that which is available in
Oracle "because of standards". C'est la vie.
--
Hans Forbrich
Canada-wide Oracle training and consulting
mailto: Fuzzy.GreyBeard _at_gmail.com
*** I no longer assist with top-posted newsgroup queries *** How could running recovery drills be easier in DB2 than in Oracle?
db2 has less moving parts to worry about
Can you be more specific on what "moving parts" are?
If I were to compare Oracle and DB2, ease of use or support would be the
last thing come to mind. The overall difference is so minor. Anybody with
slightly different experience would disagree with you.
once again, less moving parts. less stuff to manage. of course,
sometimes those extra parts given oracle flexibility that's useful. at
least theoretically that's the case. In my opion, it's also much less
forgiving - in which every single configuration change is preceeded
with a backup, and even shutting down the database can be a pain.
That's something that just doesn't seem common in the db2 world - to do
backups before every change. Talking about 9i here and v8 btw.
None of these makes any sense to me. Doing a backup before every
configuration change is a choice, an unusual one I might add, not a
requirement. That's not even something specific to Oracle. Many things can
be a pain if not done correctly, not just a simple task like shutting down a
database.
No, partitioning is not included in DB2 Workgroup Edition. You can't even
do
simple replications in DB2 without purchasing a separate product.
Last I checked, Workgroup Server Edition (WSE) costs $999 + $250 / user
in the concurrent or registered model. It also supports:
- replication
- multi-dimensional clustering (very similar to oracle partitioning)
- 64-bit instances
- up to 4 cpus
This means you could *easily* build a 2 TB data warehouse on db2 for
under $1500 in licensing costs. And yeah, mdc is different than
oracle's partitioning - lacks oracle's nice partition management. But
is very easy to work with, and is great for performance. And of course
you could also use union-all views - which are more similar to Oracle's
partitioning. This capable is also *free*, and can be combined with
mdc if you wish. And then if you want to take the next step and move
into DPF (spanning multiple servers), either of these techniques can be
*combined* with that partitioning strategy.
MDC and database paritioning are two different things, even in DB2 terms.
DPF (Database Partitioning Feature) is only available in DB2 ESE, even then
it still has to be licensed separately.
And how much does partitioning cost / server for oracle? $10,000? so,
what are we looking at here? $1500 for db2 vs $40,000 just for oracle
partitioning - not even including the base product?
How much does DB2 paritioning feature cost per CPU? And don't forget you can
also use union all views in Oracle without the paritioning feature, if you
think one can replace the other.
Mark A wrote: "DA Morgan" <da******@psoug .org> wrote in message
news:1122837601 .611024@yasure. ..
I think he is talking about dinosaurs that still use command line
scripts to back up Oracle and thus have to concern themselves with
control files, log files, data files, temp files, etc. But lets
acknowledge that these DBAs are dinosaurs using techniques no longer
reflecting best practice in the product.
Sole exception from my comment ... those poor souls precluded from
upgrading to 9i or above by management short-sightedness.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
I have seen 9i and 10g shops that don't use RMAN.
I have seen people drinking and driving.
--
Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
Captain Pedantic wrote: "DA Morgan" <da******@psoug .org> wrote in message
news:1122835935 .944779@yasure. ..
Just as a group of physicians formed the American Board of Medical
Specialitie s (www.abms.org) and just as attorney's formed the American
Bar Association: ... More on this later and hopefully something about the
American College
of Database Professionals: ... orrganizations such as www.facs.org.
Remind me what that "ww" stands for in www. again ...?
"Wide web" ;-)
I would encourage others, in their countries, to consider taking
similar action.
--
Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
"Sybrand Bakker" <po*****@sybran db.demon.nl> wrote in message If you are involved in remote maintenance, the customer bought the
application, the application is just a black box. Yet, when there are
performance problems invariably the DBA is blamed, while the vendor
plays the usual cover your ass game.
IMO, you are -as usual- generalizing way too much, and even worse,
your judgement of DBAs must be considered as offending and insulting.
But then of course you are only 'n*****@nowhere .com'
--
Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA
If a DBA doesn't have authority to change the indexes, or even recommend
changing indexes, then that is a situation I am not talking about..
I am talking about a situation where someone says (regardless of what they
have authority to change) that all foreign keys should have indexes, no
exceptions. I don't believe that is correct for Oracle or DB2 (or any other
RDBMS that I know about). I have explained in detail (in this and other
threads) the reasons why I think that is wrong.
I have also explained that far too many DBA's are looking for simple rules
that cover every situation, without having to think for themselves about how
indexes and optimizers work, or without having to analyze each situation for
optimum performance.
If you are offended and insulted that I think DBA's should be able to have a
basic understanding of the application they are working with, and should be
able to think for themselves, that is your right, but I suppose you and I
shall remain very far apart (both physically and conceptually).
And let me guess ... to replicate from Oracle on z/OS to a database on
LUW is free?
Larry E.
Bob Jones wrote: No, partitioning is not included in DB2 Workgroup Edition. You can't even
do simple replications in DB2 without purchasing a separate product.
We have been discussing here primarily DB2 for Linux/UNIX/Windows right?
This is not true. Replication is included free-of-charge with DB2 WE and
with DB2 ESE.
I am talking about replicating data from DB2 on z to DB2 on LUW.
Now, is z/OS Oracle's product or is it as open as UNIX, or even Windows?
Besides z/OS is not even a primary platform for Oracle, but it is for DB2. And let me guess ... to replicate from Oracle on z/OS to a database on LUW
is free?
Larry E.
Bob Jones wrote:No, partitioning is not included in DB2 Workgroup Edition. You can't
even do simple replications in DB2 without purchasing a separate
product.
We have been discussing here primarily DB2 for Linux/UNIX/Windows right?
This is not true. Replication is included free-of-charge with DB2 WE and
with DB2 ESE.
I am talking about replicating data from DB2 on z to DB2 on LUW.
That's not the point. One of your complaints about DB2 was that
Replication costs $. It doesn't ... only on z/OS and i-series. So does
Oracle apparently.
Larry E.
Bob Jones wrote: Now, is z/OS Oracle's product or is it as open as UNIX, or even Windows?
Besides z/OS is not even a primary platform for Oracle, but it is for DB2.
And let me guess ... to replicate from Oracle on z/OS to a database on LUW
is free?
Larry E.
Bob Jones wrote:
>No, partitioning is not included in DB2 Workgroup Edition. You can't
>even do simple replications in DB2 without purchasing a separate
>product.
>
We have been discussing here primarily DB2 for Linux/UNIX/Windows right?
This is not true. Replication is included free-of-charge with DB2 WE and
with DB2 ESE.
I am talking about replicating data from DB2 on z to DB2 on LUW.
Larry wrote: That's not the point. One of your complaints about DB2 was that
Replication costs $. It doesn't ... only on z/OS and i-series. So does
Oracle apparently.
Larry E.
1. Please don't top post
2. So does Oracle apparently what?
Charge for replication services? No.
--
Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace x with u to respond) This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
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