When I began to learn C, My teacher told me that pointer is the most
difficult part of C, it makes me afraid of it. After finishing C
program class, I found that all the code I wrote in C contains little
pointers, obviously I avoid using them.
A few days ago when I was reading a book about programming, I was told
that pointers are the very essence of C language, if I couldn't use it
well, I'm a bad programmer, it's a big shock.
So now I'm wondering: what's the exact position of pointers in C? Is
it really necessary to learn how it works again?
Sep 11 '08
69  3163  vi******@gmail. com writes:
On Sep 12, 12:20 pm, "Yee.Chuang " <mcdrag...@gmai l.comwrote:
>On Sep 12, 5:03 pm, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_ nos...@hotmail. com>
wrote:
On 11 Sep, 22:28, CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrote:
yes I moved from pascal to C and didn't find pointers a problem.
They seemed very like pascal pointers. Though I thought the sysntax
was *very* strange!
On the other hand I'd programmed in Coral, Assmebler and had
brief exposure to BCPL. So pointers seemed quite normal!
Something I forgot to tell: C is the first language I've learned,
after that I understand the basic skills of programming. Most of the
time I just use software like SAS, Matlab and R to solve problems.
Yes, I don't write any software, I just use them.
If learning pointers can help me with programing thoughts or improve
my program skills, I'm glad to do so.
Pointers are not a unique concept in C.
A pointer points to something. You can access that something via the
pointer.
That's all there is to it, as a generic concept.
Now, if you want to learn C pointers, first you'd have to understand
C's type system.
Given that p is char [4][2], you should immediately be able to tell
which type *p is, p[0][0], &p[0].
(answer: char [2], char, char (*)[2])
"p is char[4][2]"? I know pointers and I dont understand your example or
what you are trying to say.
<vi******@gmail .comwrote in message
news:5f******** *************** ***********@2g2 000hsn.googlegr oups.com...
On Sep 12, 12:20 pm, "Yee.Chuang " <mcdrag...@gmai l.comwrote:
>Something I forgot to tell: C is the first language I've learned,
after that I understand the basic skills of programming. Most of the
time I just use software like SAS, Matlab and R to solve problems.
Yes, I don't write any software, I just use them.
If learning pointers can help me with programing thoughts or improve
my program skills, I'm glad to do so.
Pointers are not a unique concept in C.
A pointer points to something. You can access that something via the
pointer.
That's all there is to it, as a generic concept.
Not quite. Those other languages use pointers behind the scenes, they
already have the 'something'.
C needs pointers just to implement those 'something's in the first place, or
to push them around. They're not an optional extra, not for dealing with
dynamic or flexible data.
Now, if you want to learn C pointers, first you'd have to understand
C's type system.
Given that p is char [4][2], you should immediately be able to tell
which type *p is, p[0][0], &p[0].
(answer: char [2], char, char (*)[2])
I wouldn't frighten off the OP with this stuff. I don't understand half of
it either.
--
Bartc
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:41:13 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<rj*@see.sig.in validwrote:
>Yee.Chuang said:
>When I began to learn C, My teacher told me that pointer is the most
difficult part of C,
He probably told you that not because they're hard to learn (they aren't!),
but because they're hard to teach!
Maybe pointers were mysterious to him. Or he felt them too dangerous
for a beginner, which we hear often. But we learn best by making
mistakes and then correcting them. Taking risks is the best part of
living.
>it makes me afraid of it.
Overcoming your fears is glorious!
>
Yes, you're not alone. But it's worth overcoming that fear, because
pointers are the very essence of the C language. And once you "get" them,
your eyes will light up, and the word "POWER!" will pop into your head,
and there'll be no stopping you.
"Yee.Chuang " wrote:
Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_ nos...@hotmail. comwrote:
>CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrote:
>>Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Yee.Chuang wrote:
When I began to learn C, My teacher told me that pointer is the
most difficult part of C, it makes me afraid of it. After
finishing C program class, I found that all the code I wrote in
C contains little pointers, obviously I avoid using them.
That's pretty much what happened with me; I came from a Pascal
background where I had used pointers once or twice in several
years, and before that BASIC, which didn't even have the concept
at all.
Then you weren't using Pascal thoroughly. The prime uses of
pointers are very similar between Pascal and C, but Pascal doesn't
allow the loose generic conversion of VAR parameters to pointers,
and similar things for arrays, etc. This allows Pascal to check
for most common errors, unlike C.
yes I moved from pascal to C and didn't find pointers a problem.
They seemed very like pascal pointers. Though I thought the sysntax
was *very* strange!
On the other hand I'd programmed in Coral, Assmebler and had
brief exposure to BCPL. So pointers seemed quite normal!
Something I forgot to tell: C is the first language I've learned,
after that I understand the basic skills of programming. Most of the
time I just use software like SAS, Matlab and R to solve problems.
Yes, I don't write any software, I just use them.
If learning pointers can help me with programing thoughts or improve
my program skills, I'm glad to do so.
If C pointers are bothering you, you might consider first learning
Pascal and handling pointers therein. Then returning to C would
mean abandoning the safety and adding new capabilities.
--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]: <http://cbfalconer.home .att.net>
Try the download section.
CBFalconer <cb********@yah oo.comwrites:
"Yee.Chuang " wrote:
>Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_ nos...@hotmail. comwrote:
>>CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrote:
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Yee.Chuan g wrote:
>
>When I began to learn C, My teacher told me that pointer is the
>most difficult part of C, it makes me afraid of it. After
>finishin g C program class, I found that all the code I wrote in
>C contains little pointers, obviously I avoid using them.
>
That's pretty much what happened with me; I came from a Pascal
backgroun d where I had used pointers once or twice in several
years, and before that BASIC, which didn't even have the concept
at all.
Then you weren't using Pascal thoroughly. The prime uses of
pointers are very similar between Pascal and C, but Pascal doesn't
allow the loose generic conversion of VAR parameters to pointers,
and similar things for arrays, etc. This allows Pascal to check
for most common errors, unlike C.
yes I moved from pascal to C and didn't find pointers a problem.
They seemed very like pascal pointers. Though I thought the sysntax
was *very* strange!
On the other hand I'd programmed in Coral, Assmebler and had
brief exposure to BCPL. So pointers seemed quite normal!
Something I forgot to tell: C is the first language I've learned,
after that I understand the basic skills of programming. Most of the
time I just use software like SAS, Matlab and R to solve problems.
Yes, I don't write any software, I just use them.
If learning pointers can help me with programing thoughts or improve
my program skills, I'm glad to do so.
If C pointers are bothering you, you might consider first learning
Pascal and handling pointers therein. Then returning to C would
mean abandoning the safety and adding new capabilities.
That is atrocious advice. And would certainly lead to expectations not
met by C.
Anyway outside of c.l.c pointers are easily taught. They are an address
where some data is. You can de-reference that address to get the data
there. You can advance the pointer to point to different addresses.
Trivial stuff when you do not try to be too clever and blind the poor
nOOB with ridiculous nonsense not applicable to their system at too
early a stage.
On Sep 12, 11:45*pm, Richard<rgr...@ gmail.comwrote:
CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrites:
"Yee.Chuang " wrote:
Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_ nos...@hotmail. comwrote:
CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrote:
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Yee.Chuang wrote:
>>>>When I began to learn C, My teacher told me that pointer is the
most difficult part of C, it makes me afraid of it. *After
finishing C program class, I found that all the code I wrote in
C contains little pointers, obviously I avoid using them.
>>>That's pretty much what happened with me; I came from a Pascal
background where I had used pointers once or twice in several
years, and before that BASIC, which didn't even have the concept
at all.
>>Then you weren't using Pascal thoroughly. *The prime uses of
pointers are very similar between Pascal and C, but Pascal doesn't
allow the loose generic conversion of VAR parameters to pointers,
and similar things for arrays, etc. *This allows Pascal to check
for most common errors, unlike C.
>yes I moved from pascal to C and didn't find pointers a problem.
They seemed very like pascal pointers. Though I thought the sysntax
was *very* strange!
>On the other hand I'd programmed in Coral, Assmebler and had
brief exposure to BCPL. So pointers seemed quite normal!
Something I forgot to tell: C is the first language I've learned,
after that I understand the basic skills of programming. Most of the
time I just use software like SAS, Matlab and R to solve problems.
Yes, I don't write any software, I just use them.
If learning pointers can help me with programing thoughts or improve
my program skills, I'm glad to do so.
If C pointers are bothering you, you might consider first learning
Pascal and handling pointers therein. *Then returning to C would
mean abandoning the safety and adding new capabilities.
That is atrocious advice. And would certainly lead to expectations not
met by C.
Anyway outside of c.l.c pointers are easily taught. They are an address
where some data is. You can de-reference that address to get the data
there. You can advance the pointer to point to different addresses.
Trivial stuff when you do not try to be too clever and blind the poor
nOOB with ridiculous nonsense not applicable to their system at too
early a stage.
Hey, Richard, it's not so serious about that so called "atrocious
advice". I came here for your advise. Thanks for all of your
instructions, now I know more about points than I used to do, that's
great and fun.
There was no malice in their discussions.
"Yee.Chuang " <mc*******@gmai l.comwrites:
On Sep 12, 11:45*pm, Richard<rgr...@ gmail.comwrote:
>CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrites:
"Yee.Chuang " wrote:
Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_ nos...@hotmail. comwrote:
CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrote:
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Yee.Chuan g wrote:
>>>>>When I began to learn C, My teacher told me that pointer is the
>most difficult part of C, it makes me afraid of it. *After
>finishin g C program class, I found that all the code I wrote in
>C contains little pointers, obviously I avoid using them.
>>>>That's pretty much what happened with me; I came from a Pascal
backgroun d where I had used pointers once or twice in several
years, and before that BASIC, which didn't even have the concept
at all.
>>>Then you weren't using Pascal thoroughly. *The prime uses of
pointers are very similar between Pascal and C, but Pascal doesn't
allow the loose generic conversion of VAR parameters to pointers,
and similar things for arrays, etc. *This allows Pascal to check
for most common errors, unlike C.
>>yes I moved from pascal to C and didn't find pointers a problem.
They seemed very like pascal pointers. Though I thought the sysntax
was *very* strange!
>>On the other hand I'd programmed in Coral, Assmebler and had
brief exposure to BCPL. So pointers seemed quite normal!
>Something I forgot to tell: C is the first language I've learned,
after that I understand the basic skills of programming. Most of the
time I just use software like SAS, Matlab and R to solve problems.
Yes, I don't write any software, I just use them.
If learning pointers can help me with programing thoughts or improve
my program skills, I'm glad to do so.
If C pointers are bothering you, you might consider first learning
Pascal and handling pointers therein. *Then returning to C would
mean abandoning the safety and adding new capabilities.
That is atrocious advice. And would certainly lead to expectations not
met by C.
Anyway outside of c.l.c pointers are easily taught. They are an address
where some data is. You can de-reference that address to get the data
there. You can advance the pointer to point to different addresses.
Trivial stuff when you do not try to be too clever and blind the poor
nOOB with ridiculous nonsense not applicable to their system at too
early a stage.
Hey, Richard, it's not so serious about that so called "atrocious
advice". I came here for your advise. Thanks for all of your
instructions, now I know more about points than I used to do, that's
great and fun.
There was no malice in their discussions.
I realise there was no malice. But it was a silly idea to tell someone
to learn an entire different language to teach what is, after all, a
relatively simple concept when approached in the correct
manner. Especially an effectively dead language such as Pascal which
Falconer seems to love.
Richard wrote:
CBFalconer <cb********@yah oo.comwrites:
.... snip ...
>
>If C pointers are bothering you, you might consider first learning
Pascal and handling pointers therein. Then returning to C would
mean abandoning the safety and adding new capabilities.
That is atrocious advice. And would certainly lead to expectations
not met by C.
Except that it duplicates my experience of long long ago, and I
have no problems with C pointers.
--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]: <http://cbfalconer.home .att.net>
Try the download section.
CBFalconer <cb********@yah oo.comwrites:
Richard wrote:
>CBFalconer <cb********@yah oo.comwrites:
... snip ...
>>
>>If C pointers are bothering you, you might consider first learning
Pascal and handling pointers therein. Then returning to C would
mean abandoning the safety and adding new capabilities.
That is atrocious advice. And would certainly lead to expectations
not met by C.
Except that it duplicates my experience of long long ago, and I
have no problems with C pointers.
Of long long ago.
I have experience of new C programmers and have never, ever had a
problem explaining them pointers and de referencing pointers. I tend to
use a debugger a block of memory. Easy.
They do not need to learn a dead language like Pascal to understand
pointers.
On Sep 11, 5:02 am, "Yee.Chuang " <mcdrag...@gmai l.comwrote:
When I began to learn C, My teacher told me that pointer is the most
difficult part of C, it makes me afraid of it. After finishing C
program class, I found that all the code I wrote in C contains little
pointers, obviously I avoid using them.
A few days ago when I was reading a book about programming, I was told
that pointers are the very essence of C language, if I couldn't use it
well, I'm a bad programmer, it's a big shock.
So now I'm wondering: what's the exact position of pointers in C? Is
it really necessary to learn how it works again?
I personally had more issues with the math end of C than pointers
themselves. Yes, I had real issues with the concepts of logical
conjunction, disjunction, implication, and NAND. De Morgans law also
bit me. With that, I'm just going back to being a silent bystander on
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