Given that UNIX, including networking, is almost entirely coded in C,
how come so many things are almost impossible in ordinary C? Examples:
Network and internet access, access to UNIX interprocess controls and
communication, locale determination, EBCDIC/ASCII discrimination, etc.
Almost all of these are easy in Perl. Why isn't there a mechanism like
perl modules to allow easy extentions for facilities like these? Isn't
anyone working on this problem? or is it all being left for proprietary
systems?
Sep 2 '08
223  7403 
CBFalconer <cb********@yah oo.comwrote:
jacob navia wrote:
Richard wrote:
I would sooner boil my nuts in a vat of sun flower oil than agree
that operator overloading in C is a good idea.
Should I send you olive oil maybe?
Ahh. The first real progress seen in this thread. :-)
For boiling nuts, arachis oil is the obvious choice.
Richard
On Sep 4, 6:15*pm, Flash Gordon <s...@flash-gordon.me.ukwro te:
jacob navia wrote, On 04/09/08 00:08:
Because it is a *simple* language. Simple languages are easier to
understand and use, and have less surface for bugs.
I've seen a lot of bugs in code written in simpler languages.
Could you elaborate? What are the mainstream programming languages
(as in those languages with a reasonable number of programs written
using them) that you consider to be simpler than C?
- Anand
"jacob navia" <ja***@nospam.c omha scritto nel messaggio
news:g9******** **@aioe.org...
Richard wrote:
It *is* easier to write
c = a+b
than c = sum(a,b);
the answer is not full
it will be full if
c = a+b;
if(c==ERRORVALU E) goto error;
or
c = a+b;
and some definition of exception in case of overflow c
On Sep 6, 1:44*pm, jacob navia <ja...@nospam.c omwrote:
TYPE operator [ ]=(TYPE table, int idx, ELEMENT_TYPE newvalue)
This would apply to
* * * * table[idx] = newvalue;
In C++ there is no way to distinguish between those
operations since you just return a pointer.
This is done to support read only data types, what is very hard in C++.
nonsense.
Read:
const TYPE& operator[](std::size_t i) const;
or, if you prefer by value:
TYPE operator[](std::size_t i) const;
Write:
TYPE& operator[](std::size_t i);
x = y[1]; would call the operator with the read prototype.
y[1] = x; would call the operator with the write prototype.
Anand Hariharan wrote, On 08/09/08 16:19:
On Sep 4, 6:15 pm, Flash Gordon <s...@flash-gordon.me.ukwro te:
>jacob navia wrote, On 04/09/08 00:08:
>>Because it is a *simple* language. Simple languages are easier to
understand and use, and have less surface for bugs.
I've seen a lot of bugs in code written in simpler languages.
Could you elaborate? What are the mainstream programming languages
(as in those languages with a reasonable number of programs written
using them) that you consider to be simpler than C?
Depending on your definition of simpler, I have...
Z80 assembler. This is a nice fairly simple assembly language and I've
seen lots of bugs in code written in it. It certainly was mainstream
back when I started using it, and there are a lot of NSC800 processors
(the military equivalent with a few extra built-in peripherals) still
flying around.
Pascal. This is simpler in terms of being in general a higher level
language without OO (which Jacob considers complex, and not without
reason), and I've seen lots of bugs in Pascal.
Choose a definition of simple and I am sure I can find a language I've
used which meets that definition.
--
Flash Gordon
Flash Gordon wrote:
....
Choose a definition of simple and I am sure I can find a language I've
used which meets that definition.
simpler := "more like C"
:-) ja*********@ver izon.net wrote, On 08/09/08 20:32:
Flash Gordon wrote:
...
>Choose a definition of simple and I am sure I can find a language I've
used which meets that definition.
simpler := "more like C"
:-)
#define := =
#define = ==
#define Pascal C
#define :=) ;-)
--
#define Flash Mark
Flash Gordon
Flash Gordon wrote:
Anand Hariharan wrote, On 08/09/08 16:19:
>On Sep 4, 6:15 pm, Flash Gordon <s...@flash-gordon.me.ukwro te:
>>jacob navia wrote, On 04/09/08 00:08:
Because it is a *simple* language. Simple languages are easier to
understand and use, and have less surface for bugs.
I've seen a lot of bugs in code written in simpler languages.
Could you elaborate? What are the mainstream programming languages
(as in those languages with a reasonable number of programs written
using them) that you consider to be simpler than C?
Depending on your definition of simpler, I have...
Z80 assembler. This is a nice fairly simple assembly language and I've
seen lots of bugs in code written in it. It certainly was mainstream
back when I started using it, and there are a lot of NSC800 processors
(the military equivalent with a few extra built-in peripherals) still
flying around.
Pascal. This is simpler in terms of being in general a higher level
language without OO (which Jacob considers complex, and not without
reason), and I've seen lots of bugs in Pascal.
Choose a definition of simple and I am sure I can find a language I've
used which meets that definition.
I did NOT say that C has no bugs. Read what I wrote again:
>>jacob navia wrote, On 04/09/08 00:08:
Simple languages are easier to
understand and use, and have less surface for bugs.
Is that clear to you now?
"Less surface" means that, less surface, not NO bugs but fewer and
easier to find.
I consider C++ a very complex language where bugs have a lot more
places to hide.
--
jacob navia
jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
logiciels/informatique http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
On Sep 8, 6:14*pm, jacob navia <ja...@nospam.c omwrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:
Anand Hariharan wrote, On 08/09/08 16:19:
On Sep 4, 6:15 pm, Flash Gordon <s...@flash-gordon.me.ukwro te:
jacob navia wrote, On 04/09/08 00:08:
Because it is a *simple* language. Simple languages are easier to
understand and use, and have less surface for bugs.
I've seen a lot of bugs in code written in simpler languages.
Could you elaborate? *What are the mainstream programming languages
(as in those languages with a reasonable number of programs written
using them) that you consider to be simpler than C?
Depending on your definition of simpler, I have...
Z80 assembler. This is a nice fairly simple assembly language and I've
seen lots of bugs in code written in it. It certainly was mainstream
back when I started using it, and there are a lot of NSC800 processors
(the military equivalent with a few extra built-in peripherals) still
flying around.
Pascal. This is simpler in terms of being in general a higher level
language without OO (which Jacob considers complex, and not without
reason), and I've seen lots of bugs in Pascal.
Choose a definition of simple and I am sure I can find a language I've
used which meets that definition.
I did NOT say that C has no bugs. Read what I wrote again:
*>>jacob navia wrote, On 04/09/08 00:08:
*>>>Simple languages are easier to
*>>>understand and use, and have less surface for bugs.
Is that clear to you now?
"Less surface" means that, less surface, not NO bugs but fewer and
easier to find.
Jacob - From what I read of Flash's response to my post, I understood
him as saying 'Jacob believes Pascal and/or Object Orientation to be
complex, and he is justified in believing it to be so'.
Flash - I agree with you in that, I consider Pascal to be simpler than
C. Since I have never had to maintain a code base in Pascal (my only
stint with Pascal was as a freshman in college, and I very likely
wrote buggy code, but I never had to review enough Pascal code to
uncover bugs), I can't offer an opinion about which language is
(inherently) more easily susceptible to bugs.
- Anand
Anand Hariharan wrote:
>
.... snip ...
>
Flash - I agree with you in that, I consider Pascal to be simpler
than C. Since I have never had to maintain a code base in Pascal
(my only stint with Pascal was as a freshman in college, and I
very likely wrote buggy code, but I never had to review enough
Pascal code to uncover bugs), I can't offer an opinion about
which language is (inherently) more easily susceptible to bugs.
I can. I spent many years concentrating on Pascal, building Pascal
systems and Pascal applications. Properly used Pascal is much less
bug susceptible than C. The point is that most such bugs will
appear at compilation time, and the code need never be run to debug
them. It is especially important to properly type design the
elements.
There is virtually no advantage for those who just write C using
Pascal code.
--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]: <http://cbfalconer.home .att.net>
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