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Safe C library

We have discussed often the proposition from Microsoft
for a safer C library.

A rationale document is published here by one of the members of
the design team at microsoft:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/is...C/default.aspx

jacob
Feb 4 '07
72 4456
Chris Hills said:
In article <45************ **********@news .orange.fr>, jacob navia
<ja***@jacob.re mcomp.frwrites
>>We have discussed often the proposition from Microsoft
for a safer C library.

It is NOT the "safer C" library.

This is for 2 reasons.
1 The library is not safer
2 the name "safer C" belongs to some one else.

BTW they are actually calling it the "Safe C Library"
They're borrowing a trick from HM Government - getting rid of the difficult
bit by putting it in the title. It does less harm there.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at the above domain, - www.
Feb 4 '07 #11
On Feb 4, 5:48 pm, Chris Hills <c...@phaedsys. orgwrote:
1 The library is not safer
Perhaps it's some cynical marketing scheme whereby Microsoft
come out and say "Look, even with a safe library, it's no safer.
Why don't you convert all your legacy code to C#?"

MC

Feb 4 '07 #12
jacob navia a écrit :
We have discussed often the proposition from Microsoft
for a safer C library.

A rationale document is published here by one of the members of
the design team at microsoft:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/is...C/default.aspx

jacob
None of the answers addresses any of the problems that this software
tries to fix.

Just the usual:

"We are the greatest" "It will be slower", "I dislike Microsoft"
and similar.

Christopher Layne says:

"The new libraries will be slower".

He doesn't explain what measurements he did to arrive at this
conclusion.

Ben Becaisse says:
But the oddest part of all is that none of the things suggested (in
the part I read, at least) is at all hard to do in standard C.

Obvious. But precisely, it is the first time somebody takes the
time to make a proposal for a STANDARD set of those functions, so
users do not have to reinvent the wheel.

Malcolm McLean complains that his compiler doesn't work. What this
has to do with the proposal is impossible to know. He doesn't explain
anything.

Cesar Rabak has the only substantive contribution to this
thread by pointing that gnu has a library that tries to address
the memory overflow problem.

This is an interesting contribution. I looked
at the library and it tries to figure if the stack return address will
be touched by functions like printf... It is nice, and I think I could
add some of that code to the printf implementation of lcc-win32 and
lcc-win64.

The other "contributi ons" (heathfield et al) are best ignored.

I am not for this proposal, even if lcc-win32 has implemented
Microsoft's proposal. The solution is to get rid of zero terminated
strings, but it is surely a step in the right direction.

jacob
Feb 4 '07 #13
On Feb 4, 6:32 pm, jacob navia <j...@jacob.rem comp.frwrote:
The other "contributi ons" (heathfield et al) are best ignored.
Grow a sense of humour please.

MC

Feb 4 '07 #14
In article <11************ **********@m58g 2000cwm.googleg roups.com>,
<ar**********@g ooglemail.comwr ote:
>On Feb 4, 6:32 pm, jacob navia <j...@jacob.rem comp.frwrote:
>The other "contributi ons" (heathfield et al) are best ignored.

Grow a sense of humour please.
He does. It is heathfield (and others, but heathfield is the archetype)
who has none.

Feb 4 '07 #15
On Feb 4, 6:45 pm, gaze...@xmissio n.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
wrote:
In article <1170614209.892 344.253...@m58g 2000cwm.googleg roups.com>,

<artifact....@g ooglemail.comwr ote:
On Feb 4, 6:32 pm, jacob navia <j...@jacob.rem comp.frwrote:
The other "contributi ons" (heathfield et al) are best ignored.
Grow a sense of humour please.

He does. It is heathfield (and others, but heathfield is the archetype)
who has none.
Well I can't discount that, I don't know either of them. But the only
thing I ever see from Jacob Navia is a monologue to an omnipresent
third party as soon as anybody brings up a contrary point of view
(even in jest).

Frankly I'm not in the slightest bit interested in a discussion of
a 'safe C library' and even less interested in a discussion about
the merits and problems of zero terminated strings (that's
where this discussion is inevitably heading, after all). I doubt
I'll comment on this thread again.

MC

Feb 4 '07 #16
ar**********@go oglemail.com wrote:
On Feb 4, 6:45 pm, gaze...@xmissio n.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
wrote:
He does. It is heathfield (and others, but heathfield is the
archetype) who has none.

Well I can't discount that
Go ahead. Kenny is one of the resident trolls. He supports Navia only
to cause trouble in the group. It's best to ignore him.


Brian
Feb 4 '07 #17
On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 14:14:43 +0000, in comp.lang.c , Ben Bacarisse
<be********@bsb .me.ukwrote:
>jacob navia <ja***@jacob.re mcomp.frwrites:
>We have discussed often the proposition from Microsoft
for a safer C library.

A rationale document is published here by one of the members of
the design team at microsoft:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/is...C/default.aspx

This is one the most preposterous documents I've seen[1].
Bear in mind that many vendors are reknowned for wanting to persuade
you to use their proprietary extensions, in the hopes of locking you
in.
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan
Feb 4 '07 #18
On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 16:01:14 -0200, in comp.lang.c , Cesar Rabak
<cs*****@yahoo. com.brwrote:
>Code that never gets compiled is the safest of all!?
Of course - if you can't compile it, you can't run it...

--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan
Feb 4 '07 #19
Chris Hills wrote:
In article <87************ @bsb.me.uk>, Ben Bacarisse
<be********@bsb .me.ukwrites
>jacob navia <ja***@jacob.re mcomp.frwrites:
>>We have discussed often the proposition from Microsoft
for a safer C library.

A rationale document is published here by one of the members of
the design team at microsoft:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/is...C/default.aspx

This is one the most preposterous documents I've seen[1]. It would
make an interesting tutorial if it was as an essay from and
undergraduat e, but as a serious proposal from a major software
company? Might it actually get in?

Unfortunately yes.

I argued against it from the fist time I saw it in 2004.
BTW it covers all 2000 functions in the C library..... :-)
There are 2,000 functions ?

--
Joe Wright
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
--- Albert Einstein ---
Feb 4 '07 #20

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