Idiotic question of an Idiot - dint like dont reply.

[novice]

I dint find a proper group to post this,
so i'm asking this question. If you think
this question is irrelevent then dont answer,
but i expect good replies from experts.

I wondor, how these guys who answer
to complicated questions have mastered C.
I'm a beginner in C, and wondor how to master C.
Should i study theory, or start writing programs?
If i should start writing programs, What programs should i start with?
Where should i find the proper materials.

[santosh]

ki************@ yahoo.com wrote:

to ba a c master its better to read theory and practice in a computer
but the good book for a beginner is ansi c by any author but it must
not my dennis ritche its very hard to understand even though he is an
expert

How can one claim to be a "master" at something, without understanding
it's most difficult and intricate parts?

As an aside, a "master" of SMS speak is needed, just to decipher your
post. Please try to use proper spelling and punctuation, if not
grammar, in posts to USENET. Posts like the above are one of the
fastest ways to lose whatever credibility you might otherwise have
enjoyed.

By the way, even though some of the exercises in K&R's book may be a
little difficult, they are really stimulating and challenging to anyone
who genuinely likes programming and the C language.

[Dik T. Winter]

In article <11************ **********@e56g 2000cwe.googleg roups.com> "novice" <sa*******@gmai l.com> writes:

I wondor, how these guys who answer
to complicated questions have mastered C.
I'm a beginner in C, and wondor how to master C.
Should i study theory, or start writing programs?

Depends. When you have thorough previous experience with other computer
languages you might master it by just trying. But I do not know whether
that is really efficient (although I mastered the languages I use by just
this method, except the very first one, Algol 60).

When you do not have thorough previous experience, it is better to go
both ways at the same time. Study the theory (i.e. text books about the
language) and at the same time try to write programs.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, [phone]
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

[John Bode]

novice wrote:

I wondor, how these guys who answer
to complicated questions have mastered C.
Many years of bitter, painful experience.
I'm a beginner in C, and wondor how to master C.
Should i study theory, or start writing programs?
Programming is a skill, and all skills require practice. In order to
learn how to write code, you must write code. Of course, you must also
have at least one, preferably two good references with you while you
are learning. Kernighan and Ritchie's "The C Programming Language,"
2nd ed., is a good start. I also like Harbison & Steele's "C: A
Reference Manual". There are a few other good ones, but beware: the
vast majority of books and websites on the C language are worthless.
If i should start writing programs, What programs should i start with?
Where should i find the proper materials.

K&R2 has exercises after each chapter. Once you've done a few of the
exercises, you should start getting a feel for what you can do.

[CBFalconer]

Richard Heathfield wrote:

Vladimir S. Oka said:

novice wrote:

I dint find a proper group to post this, so i'm asking this
question. If you think this question is irrelevent then dont
answer, but i expect good replies from experts.

I wondor, how these guys who answer to complicated questions
have mastered C. I'm a beginner in C, and wondor how to master
C. Should i study theory, or start writing programs? If i
should start writing programs, What programs should i start
with? Where should i find the proper materials.

A good place to start is "The C Programming Language - Second
Edition"

Another good place to start would be any place that teaches
good manners. If he thinks my answer is irrelevant he need not
answer, but I expect good questions from novices.

I would, at least tentatively, put that down to language
difficulties. Somehow I suspect that his English is better than my
<whatever he was brought up on>.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.c om, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell. org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsrep ly/>

[CBFalconer]

santosh wrote:

ki************@ yahoo.com wrote:

to ba a c master its better to read theory and practice in a
computer but the good book for a beginner is ansi c by any
author but it must not my dennis ritche its very hard to
understand even though he is an expert

How can one claim to be a "master" at something, without
understanding it's most difficult and intricate parts?

As an aside, a "master" of SMS speak is needed, just to decipher
your post. Please try to use proper spelling and punctuation, if
not grammar, in posts to USENET. Posts like the above are one of
the fastest ways to lose whatever credibility you might
otherwise have enjoyed.

By the way, even though some of the exercises in K&R's book may
be a little difficult, they are really stimulating and
challenging to anyone who genuinely likes programming and the C
language.

Not to mention that it is one of the clearest language expositions
available for any language. Not the most verbose though. You are
allowed to stop and thing between paragraphs. Its clarity probably
has a great deal to do with the general ascendence of C as a
programming language.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.c om, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell. org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsrep ly/>

[Richard Heathfield]

CBFalconer said:

Richard Heathfield wrote:

Vladimir S. Oka said:

novice wrote:

I dint find a proper group to post this, so i'm asking this
question. If you think this question is irrelevent then dont
answer, but i expect good replies from experts.

I wondor, how these guys who answer to complicated questions
have mastered C. I'm a beginner in C, and wondor how to master
C. Should i study theory, or start writing programs? If i
should start writing programs, What programs should i start
with? Where should i find the proper materials.

A good place to start is "The C Programming Language - Second
Edition"

Another good place to start would be any place that teaches
good manners. If he thinks my answer is irrelevant he need not
answer, but I expect good questions from novices.

I would, at least tentatively, put that down to language
difficulties.

I wouldn't. He's making the wrong kind of mistakes for it to be second
language syndrome. People who speak English as a foreign language get word
order mildly wrong sometimes, or omit articles ('a', 'the', etc), or
perhaps choose what we would consider to be a strange noun. But they don't
make mistakes like "dint". Nor do they turn "wonder" into "wondor". (They
are more likely to turn "vendor" into "vender".)

No, this is just a guy who can't be bothered to write his own language
properly.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)

[Vladimir S. Oka]

On Thursday 16 March 2006 05:43, Richard Heathfield opined (in
<dv**********@n wrdmz02.dmz.ncs .ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>):

CBFalconer said:

Richard Heathfield wrote:

Vladimir S. Oka said:
novice wrote:

> I dint find a proper group to post this, so i'm asking this
> question. If you think this question is irrelevent then dont
> answer, but i expect good replies from experts.
>
> I wondor, how these guys who answer to complicated questions
> have mastered C. I'm a beginner in C, and wondor how to master
> C. Should i study theory, or start writing programs? If i
> should start writing programs, What programs should i start
> with? Where should i find the proper materials.

A good place to start is "The C Programming Language - Second
Edition"

Another good place to start would be any place that teaches
good manners. If he thinks my answer is irrelevant he need not
answer, but I expect good questions from novices.

I would, at least tentatively, put that down to language
difficulties.

I wouldn't. He's making the wrong kind of mistakes for it to be second
language syndrome. People who speak English as a foreign language get
word order mildly wrong sometimes, or omit articles ('a', 'the', etc),
or perhaps choose what we would consider to be a strange noun. But
they don't make mistakes like "dint". Nor do they turn "wonder" into
"wondor". (They are more likely to turn "vendor" into "vender".)

No, this is just a guy who can't be bothered to write his own language
properly.

English being /my/ second language (caveat: my second profession is
translating to and from it ;-) ), and being exposed to all levels
provenances of non-native English in the office (apres office as well),
I tend to side with Richard on this one.

It's the general demeanour that suggests lack of effort at best. Bad
English may feel clumsy, but rarely disrespectful or offensive. I'll
grant you that OP is not the worst I've seen here recently.

--
BR, Vladimir

A mind is a wonderful thing to waste.

[Dik T. Winter]

In article <dv**********@n wrdmz03.dmz.ncs .ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> "Vladimir S. Oka" <no****@btopenw orld.com> writes:

On Thursday 16 March 2006 05:43, Richard Heathfield opined (in
<dv**********@n wrdmz02.dmz.ncs .ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>):

....

I wouldn't. He's making the wrong kind of mistakes for it to be second
language syndrome. People who speak English as a foreign language get
word order mildly wrong sometimes, or omit articles ('a', 'the', etc),
or perhaps choose what we would consider to be a strange noun. But
they don't make mistakes like "dint". Nor do they turn "wonder" into
"wondor". (They are more likely to turn "vendor" into "vender".)

No, this is just a guy who can't be bothered to write his own language
properly.

English being /my/ second language (caveat: my second profession is
translating to and from it ;-) ), and being exposed to all levels
provenances of non-native English in the office (apres office as well),
I tend to side with Richard on this one.

I disagree. As the article was posted from a DSL line connected to
a system based in New Delhi...
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, [phone]
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

[Ben C]

On 2006-03-16, Dik T. Winter <Di********@cwi .nl> wrote:

In article <dv**********@n wrdmz03.dmz.ncs .ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> "Vladimir S. Oka" <no****@btopenw orld.com> writes:

On Thursday 16 March 2006 05:43, Richard Heathfield opined (in
<dv**********@n wrdmz02.dmz.ncs .ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>):

...

[...] this is just a guy who can't be bothered to write his own
language properly.

English being /my/ second language (caveat: my second profession is
translating to and from it ;-) ), and being exposed to all levels
provenances of non-native English in the office (apres office as well),
I tend to side with Richard on this one.

I disagree. As the article was posted from a DSL line connected to
a system based in New Delhi...

Anyway, whatever the reasons, it's not fair to be mean to people just
because they can't spell.

I appreciate there are good reasons for keeping up the standard of the
postings; but a rank beginner asking "how do I get started?", as the OP
was, seems to me an honest question that deserves a decent response,
like the ones many people have given.

It's at the very beginning of learning something that you most need to
ask for help.

[Vladimir S. Oka]

Ben C wrote:

On 2006-03-16, Dik T. Winter <Di********@cwi .nl> wrote:

In article <dv**********@n wrdmz03.dmz.ncs .ea.ibs-infra.bt.com> "Vladimir S. Oka" <no****@btopenw orld.com> writes:

On Thursday 16 March 2006 05:43, Richard Heathfield opined (in
<dv**********@n wrdmz02.dmz.ncs .ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>):

...

> [...] this is just a guy who can't be bothered to write his own
> language properly.

English being /my/ second language (caveat: my second profession is
translating to and from it ;-) ), and being exposed to all levels
provenances of non-native English in the office (apres office as well),
I tend to side with Richard on this one.

I disagree. As the article was posted from a DSL line connected to
a system based in New Delhi...

Anyway, whatever the reasons, it's not fair to be mean to people just
because they can't spell.

I appreciate there are good reasons for keeping up the standard of the
postings; but a rank beginner asking "how do I get started?", as the OP
was, seems to me an honest question that deserves a decent response,
like the ones many people have given.

It's at the very beginning of learning something that you most need to
ask for help.

I don't think spelling and grammar are at issue here. Everyday I work,
and live, with people who get these wrong. I still don't normally get
this feeling that the "tone of voice" (admittedly hard to put across
online) is somehow wrong. Maybe it's a spoken vs written difference,
but then not all of the posts here trigger it (it's actually a
vanishing minority).

--
BR, Vladimir