Why is C syntax so uneasy on the eye?
In its day, was it _really_ designed by snobby programmers to scare away
potential "n00bs"? If so, and after 50+ years of programming research,
why are programming languages still being designed with C's syntax?
These questions drive me insane. Every waking minute...
Nov 14 '05
177  7095 
"Dr Chaos" <mb************ ****@NOSPAMyaho o.com> wrote in message Profound anti-intellectualism among practitioners, and cargo-cult
imitation. This spurious idea being that "gee, C was popular; so
why don't we make our language with Cish syntax so we might be
popular too."
Or maybe "C is popular so let's use a syntax that most programmers are
already familiar with".
Just as sensible as using English language keywords and function names,
because most programmers already know at least some English.
On Fri, 28 May 2004 11:13:43 +0400, Dmitry Zamotkin wrote: he-he.
C is not functional too.
Try rand() function.
rand() works right. You are broken.
--
yvoregnevna gjragl-guerr gjb-gubhfnaq guerr ng lnubb qbg pbz
To email me, rot13 and convert spelled-out numbers to numeric form.
"Makes hackers smile" makes hackers smile. Da*****@cern.ch (Dan Pop) wrote in message news:<c9******* ***@sunnews.cer n.ch>... In <bu************ *************** *****@4ax.com> Alan Balmer <al******@att.n et> writes:
None of the programming languages assigning semantics to indentation
has ever become mainstream. There must be a reason...
Not true. You're living in the present. In the past, when punch card
input was the norm, indentation had a meaning. In particular, FORTRAN
IV required input to begin in column 7 (or was it 8?), with a '*' in
column 6(7) as continuation...
DISCLAIMER: It's been nigh onto 25 years since I've done FORTRAN IV.
My info on the specific columns may be incorrect.
[Note: I was unable to post a message to comp.lang.c (as specified in
the "Followup-To" header in your message) unless I also posted to
microsoft.publi c.dotnet.langua ges.csharp. I'm not certain why. In any
case, I've restored that "Followup-To" header.]
Dr Chaos wrote:
<snipped some interesting stuff> These questions drive me insane. Every waking minute...
The answers are easy. But depressing.
I'm glad you understand. :-)
"August Derleth" <se*@sig.now> wrote in message
news:pa******** *************** *****@sig.now.. . he-he.
C is not functional too.
Try rand() function.
rand() works right. You are broken.
Actually, rand() has some side-effects - changing the seeds of pseudo-random
generator.
So, such function is not pure-fuctional-programming-language-function.
"August Derleth" <se*@sig.now> wrote in message
news:pa******** *************** *****@sig.now.. . he-he.
C is not functional too.
Try rand() function.
rand() works right. You are broken.
Actually, rand() has some side-effects - changing the seeds of pseudo-random
generator.
So, such function is not pure-fuctional-programming-language-function.
"Viktor Lofgren" <zw*@eudial.n os--pam.mine.nu> wrote in message
news:tk******** ********@newsb. telia.net...
Here's why: It works and is perfectly balanced between levels. It is not
gibberish like LISP or Assembly (no offense, but it is kinda hard to see
what (+ 2 (* 8 (expt 25 (/ 5 2)))) does).
To start understand such stuff you need to write code in LISP for a few
days, not more. After that it may become even _simpler_ to understand,
because it's not required to memorize order of precedence.
Malcolm <ma*****@55bank .freeserve.co.u k> wrote:
"Dr Chaos" <mb************ ****@NOSPAMyaho o.com> wrote in message Profound anti-intellectualism among practitioners, and cargo-cult
imitation. This spurious idea being that "gee, C was popular; so
why don't we make our language with Cish syntax so we might be
popular too."
Or maybe "C is popular so let's use a syntax that most programmers are
already familiar with".
Actually I think that's can be a worse idea---suggesting something
that 'almost works' the same, but in fact is subtly different is quite
dangerous.
Like, in the USA you might want to give your buddy who's had too much
to drink "a ride" home, but if you try offer that to your mates in
Sydney (as opposed to a "lift") you're likely to get socked. At least
in most straight bars.
Just as sensible as using English language keywords and function names,
because most programmers already know at least some English.
It is not as sensible, especially when other forms are tested to be
better.
I believe natural language is an different situation because human
brains have specific circuits for it, and not specifically programming
languages.
To some degree (but not completely) good syntaxes are those which can
use the low-level processing of brains and natural langauges to suggest
the correct semantics "without thinking", or at least the conscious
perception thereof.
For instance, Lisp has practically no syntax, but that doesn't make
it easy---it offloads all understanding to the general conscious processing
of the cortex. And linguistic testing has shown that humans do not
have that deep a mental stack.
So despite the fact that from a purely theoretical perspective, Lisp
programs should be very easy to understand, they aren't, and
programming languages with more redundant and full syntaxes seem to be
generally preferred. Lisp has advantages that can outweigh
its disadvantages, but non-ergonomic syntax is a disadvantage.
(Smalltalk may share some of this as well). Lisp is a bad syntax
but it can be worth it. I don't think C-derived syntaxes are.
Besides, how many former Visual Basic programmers were really long-time
"regular" BASIC programmers? Not that large a fraction.
Arthur J. O'Dwyer <aj*@nospam.and rew.cmu.edu> wrote:
Not that I'm disagreeing, but *is* there any ambiguity avoided
by requiring parens around the condition in a 'do...while' loop?
I don't know about C, but it may have been a holdover from Fortran,
where it does matter:
! fortran
if (condition = something) then
because
if condition = something
can be also
ifcondition = something
an assignment.
In C I don't see the issue, I admit.
E.g., what problem, if any (besides lack of symmetry), is introduced
by the "reform"
do stmt; while expr;
do { block } while expr;
replacing
do stmt; while (expr);
do { block } while (expr);
(Also, there's no ambiguity avoided by the requirement of a semicolon
following the label of a 'goto'. Just defusing potential "do you
know you're being utterly ridiculous" responses. ;)
-Arthur
On 29 May 2004 19:35:09 -0700, re********@yaho o.com (red floyd) wrote: Da*****@cern.c h (Dan Pop) wrote in message news:<c9******* ***@sunnews.cer n.ch>... In <bu************ *************** *****@4ax.com> Alan Balmer <al******@att.n et> writes:
None of the programming languages assigning semantics to indentation
has ever become mainstream. There must be a reason...
Not true. You're living in the present. In the past, when punch card
input was the norm, indentation had a meaning. In particular, FORTRAN
IV required input to begin in column 7 (or was it 8?), with a '*' in
column 6(7) as continuation...
DISCLAIMER: It's been nigh onto 25 years since I've done FORTRAN IV.
My info on the specific columns may be incorrect.
Column 6 was for the continuation. Your code had to fit in columns
7 through 72. 73 through 80 was for a card sequence number, and
ignored by the compiler, IIRC.
Cobol also (originally) used column-positional syntax, Area A,
Area B, and so on.
Columns 1 through 6 (or 7) was for sequence numbers, followed by
Area A for paragraph names, and Area B for code, but its been a long
time.
At any rate, Dan is incorrect.
Oz
--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
by: mike420 |
last post by:
I think everyone who used Python will agree that its syntax is
the best thing going for it. It is very readable and easy
for everyone to learn. But, Python does not a have very good
macro capabilities, unfortunately. I'd like to know if it may
be possible to add a powerful macro system to Python, while
keeping its amazing syntax, and if it could be possible to
add Pythonistic syntax to Lisp or Scheme, while keeping all
of the...
|
by: Tuang |
last post by:
I'm checking out Python as a candidate for replacing Perl as my "Swiss
Army knife" tool. The longer I can remember the syntax for performing
a task, the more likely I am to use it on the spot if the need arises.
If I have to go off and look it up, as I increasingly have to do with
Perl's ever hairier syntax, I'm more likely to just skip it, making me
even less likely to remember the syntax the next time.
So I hear that Python is easier...
|
by: Sandy Norton |
last post by:
If we are going to be stuck with @decorators for 2.4, then how about
using blocks and indentation to elminate repetition and increase
readability:
Example 1
---------
class Klass:
def __init__(self, name):
|
by: George Sakkis |
last post by:
I'm sure there must have been a past thread about this topic but I don't know how to find it: How
about extending the "for <X> in" syntax so that X can include default arguments ? This would be very
useful for list/generator comprehensions, for example being able to write something like:
instead of the less elegant explicit loop version that has to check for the length of each sequence.
What do you think ?
George
|
by: Carter Smith |
last post by:
http://www.icarusindie.com/Literature/ebooks/
Rather than advocating wasting money on expensive books for beginners,
here's my collection
of ebooks that have been made freely available on-line by their authors.
There are lots of them out there but this selection cuts out the junk.
If you know of any other good books that are freely available please post a
link to them here and I'll consider adding them to the site.
| | |
by: Nicolas Fleury |
last post by:
Hi everyone, I would to know what do you think of this PEP. Any comment
welcomed (even about English mistakes).
PEP: XXX
Title: Specialization Syntax
Version: $Revision: 1.10 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2003/09/22 04:51:49 $
Author: Nicolas Fleury <nidoizo at gmail.com>
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
|
by: Jeremy Yallop |
last post by:
Looking over some code I came across a line like this
if isalnum((unsigned char)c) {
which was accepted by the compiler without complaint. Should the
compiler have issued a diagnostic in this case? (I think it's not
required to, but I'd like confirmation).
Jeremy.
|
by: Bob hotmail.com> |
last post by:
Everyone
I have been spending weeks looking on the web for a good tutorial on how to use regular expressions and other methods to satisfy my craving for learning how to do FAST c-style syntax highlighting in C# but I have yet to find anything useful
I know there are people at MS that know this stuff like the front of their hand and I know there are many people out on the web that are proficient in doing this as well but it seems nobody...
|
by: Manuel |
last post by:
I'm trying to compile glut 3.7.6 (dowbloaded from official site)using
devc++.
So I've imported the glut32.dsp into devc++, included manually some
headers, and start to compile.
It return a very strange error. In your experience, where I should
looking to find the real error? Surely the sintax of glut is correct...
gcc.exe -c glut_bitmap.c -o glut_bitmap.o -I"C:/Dev-Cpp/include"
-I"../../include" -D__GNUWIN32__ -W -DWIN32 -DNDEBUG...
|
by: marktang |
last post by:
ONU (Optical Network Unit) is one of the key components for providing high-speed Internet services. Its primary function is to act as an endpoint device located at the user's premises. However, people are often confused as to whether an ONU can Work As a Router. In this blog post, we’ll explore What is ONU, What Is Router, ONU & Router’s main usage, and What is the difference between ONU and Router. Let’s take a closer look !
Part I. Meaning of...
|
by: jinu1996 |
last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven tapestry of website design and digital marketing. It's not merely about having a website; it's about crafting an immersive digital experience that captivates audiences and drives business growth.
The Art of Business Website Design
Your website is...
| | |
by: Hystou |
last post by:
Overview:
Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows Update option using the Control Panel or Settings app; it automatically checks for updates and installs any it finds, whether you like it or not. For most users, this new feature is actually very convenient. If you want to control the update process,...
|
by: tracyyun |
last post by:
Dear forum friends,
With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each protocol has its own unique characteristics and advantages, but as a user who is planning to build a smart home system, I am a bit confused by the choice of these technologies. I'm particularly interested in Zigbee because I've heard it does some...
|
by: agi2029 |
last post by:
Let's talk about the concept of autonomous AI software engineers and no-code agents. These AIs are designed to manage the entire lifecycle of a software development project—planning, coding, testing, and deployment—without human intervention. Imagine an AI that can take a project description, break it down, write the code, debug it, and then launch it, all on its own....
Now, this would greatly impact the work of software developers. The idea...
|
by: isladogs |
last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM).
In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules.
He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms.
Adolph will...
|
by: conductexam |
last post by:
I have .net C# application in which I am extracting data from word file and save it in database particularly. To store word all data as it is I am converting the whole word file firstly in HTML and then checking html paragraph one by one.
At the time of converting from word file to html my equations which are in the word document file was convert into image.
Globals.ThisAddIn.Application.ActiveDocument.Select();...
|
by: adsilva |
last post by:
A Windows Forms form does not have the event Unload, like VB6. What one acts like?
| | |
by: bsmnconsultancy |
last post by:
In today's digital era, a well-designed website is crucial for businesses looking to succeed. Whether you're a small business owner or a large corporation in Toronto, having a strong online presence can significantly impact your brand's success. BSMN Consultancy, a leader in Website Development in Toronto offers valuable insights into creating effective websites that not only look great but also perform exceptionally well. In this comprehensive...
| |
