Teaching new tricks to an old dog (C++ -->Ada)

[Turamnvia Suouriviaskimatta]

I 'm following various posting in "comp.lang. ada, comp.lang.c++ ,
comp.realtime, comp.software-eng" groups regarding selection of a
programming language of C, C++ or Ada for safety critical real-time
applications. The majority of expert/people recommend Ada for safety
critical real-time applications. I've many years of experience in C/C++ (and
Delphi) but no Ada knowledge.

May I ask if it is too difficult to move from C/C++ to Ada?
What is the best way of learning Ada for a C/C++ programmer?

[red floyd]

Alberto wrote:

1. Is Ada case-insensitive as Pascal? In that case, Ada==ADA

What does an Air Defense Artillery unit have to do with this? :)

[Pascal Obry]

Ioannis Vranos <iv*@remove.thi s.grad.com> writes:

How can this be done in Ada?

As it can be seen here, the bullet-proof high level facilities are used. :-)

Ok, you want to play this game :) I like it...

How would you implement this (100% Ada, no external libraries as used in
your C++ example):

package API is
pragma Remote_Call_Int erface;

procedure Call_Me (Str : in String);
end API;

Seriously, we are not going to build thousands of examples for C++ and Ada,
right ?

Pascal.

--

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--| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
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--| http://www.obry.org
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
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--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

[Martin Dowie]

Jerry Coffin wrote:

The subject at hand was the use of C++ in the air traffic control
system.

As such, X running on top of Windows and/or UNIX becomes relevant ONLY
when tied to the development of air traffic control software. This page
shows exactly that. A page only about X on Windows or UNIX would not.

Well, I don't think this is *big* news to anyone! I wasn't expecting
these things to run bare-board machines. (Actually I do know a /little/
about ATC, as my brother worked for years at West Drayton, the control
centre for Heathrow).

Cheers

-- Martin

[Pascal Obry]

az****@yahoo.es (Alberto) writes:

Well, it's time for me to join the 'American Dentist Association vs
C++' flame war:

You've probably not read the whole thread. It seems to me that we are far from
a language flame war. At least I found (being on the Ada side) some very
interresting messages about C++ here.

Or maybe you are trying to start one!

Pascal.

--

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--| http://www.obry.org
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

[Pascal Obry]

"Alex R. Mosteo" <de*****@mailin ator.com> writes:

Boh, the flaming here has been pretty low. In fact I'm getting very
interesting info from both fronts and both languages.

Exactly, the C++ meta-template programming seems quite interesting.

Pascal.

--

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--| http://www.obry.org
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

[Preben Randhol]

On 2005-03-05, Ioannis Vranos <iv*@remove.thi s.grad.com> wrote:

With Ada aside (I find no reason why one should not learn it), C++ is a
powerful and systems programming language, and power implies painful low
level details. However it also provides all major high level facilities,
and if you stick in high level programming it is very safe, while it
maintains the maximum space and run-time efficiency principle.

C++ programmers will claim to their death that they are infallible and
everybody else isn't. However, none of them seem to understand how ignorant
they are...

If C++ is safe, then so is a bog.

Preben

[xpyttl]

"Preben Randhol" <ra************ *************** ****@pvv.org> wrote in
message news:42******** @news.broadpark .no...

C++ programmers will claim to their death that they are infallible and
everybody else isn't. However, none of them seem to understand how ignorant they are...

And this is different from Ada programmers how?

There are obviously two groups here. First, there are the Ada guys who seem
to think that modern C++ is the same language Dennis Ritchie invented 30
years ago. Then there are the C++ guys who view Ada as a sort of military
style Cobol.

The two camps are equally close to the truth.

...

[Ed Falis]

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:55:17 -0500, xpyttl <xp***********@ earthling.net>
wrote:

The two camps are equally close to the truth.

Fortunately, it mostly hasn't been that bad as language debates go ;-)

- Ed

[Pascal Obry]

"xpyttl" <xp***********@ earthling.net> writes:

There are obviously two groups here. First, there are the Ada guys who seem
to think that modern C++ is the same language Dennis Ritchie invented 30
years ago. Then there are the C++ guys who view Ada as a sort of military
style Cobol.

The two camps are equally close to the truth.

Right, both statements are certainly wrong.

Yet, Preben point was that Ada has been designed from the start to be safe
were C++ was not. As many have pointed out there is different C++, one based on
templates, STL... and is safer... but yet a programmer is a programmer. What we
are saying on the Ada side is that at some point you'll exit the safe side for
some reasons (I'm sure nobody will say this impossible, we are just human) and
the compiler will never tell. Code review will certainly help. But again this
is costly.

Most of us on the Ada side are considering that what is important in a
language is not what it permits but what it prohibits for just this reason. We
will all step on the wrong side at some point, we want the language and the
compiler to be able to warn us. Of course this can look frustrating but it is
invaluable in the long run.

I can't speak for the whole Ada community, so if you do not share this view,
feel free speak up :)

Note that it is for this very reason that Java was born (a safer C++). Java
has indeed removed lot of unsafe constructs from C++.

Pascal.

--

--|------------------------------------------------------
--| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member
--| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE
--|------------------------------------------------------
--| http://www.obry.org
--| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination"
--|
--| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595

[Robert A Duff]

"Alex R. Mosteo" <de*****@mailin ator.com> writes:

Boh, the flaming here has been pretty low.
Yes. That's refreshing.
...In fact I'm getting very
interesting info from both fronts and both languages.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^

"Interestin g", indeed. ;-) Unfortunately, about half of this
information is complete nonsense -- about both languages! Plus some
misinformation about what optimizing compilers can and cannot do, thrown
in for good measure.

- Bob