C++ and Middleware

[David Eng]

Finally, the C++ standard committee realizes the importance of
middleware and distributed computing. The committee now focus on C++
extensions for ISO CLI, the Microsoft middleware platform. Sadly,
they chose the wrong middleware platform. Microsoft has notorious
application software. They never produce a true enterprise level
software. Most of their software products target small companies.
However, the strength of C++ is it can build mission critical systems
which are widely used in such industries like telecom, financial,
transport, medical, and military industries. These systems never can
run on Windows operating system. So, why the committee has to embrace
Microsoft which never treats C++ as a first class language?

Then, there is CORBA middleware platform. You can find CORBA in these
mission critical systems in these industries. CORBA is built in the
mind of C++ and indeed treat C++ the first class language. In some
way, I would think because of CORBA, C++ can still keep up with
competition from other programming languages. It is perfect marriage
between a programming language C++ and middleware platform CORBA. My
question is why C++ standard committee ignores CORBA and embraces
Microsoft? Is it time for our C++ community think hard for where C++
should go? The popularity and growth of C++ is declining. If C++
community doesn't accept the trend of distributed computing and
integrates C++ with a middleware platform, C++ will degrade into a
third class language suitable only for a limited application.

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[Pete Becker]

Francis Glassborow wrote:

In message <40************ ***@acm.org>, Pete Becker <pe********@acm .org>
writes

David Eng wrote:

Finally, the C++ standard committee realizes the importance of
middleware and distributed computing. The committee now focus on C++
extensions for ISO CLI, the Microsoft middleware platform.

The ISO C++ standards committee is working on C++. There is no ISO CLI.
There's an ECMA committee working on CLI.

Try ISO/IEC 23271 (CLI) and 23272 (CLI TR) -- fast tracked in April 2003

Yup. Looks like I've added to the confusion in this thread instead of
subtracting from it.

--

Pete Becker
Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com)

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[David Eng]

da**********@ya hoo.com (David Eng) wrote in message news:<6b******* *************** ****@posting.go ogle.com>...

Finally, the C++ standard committee realizes the importance of
middleware and distributed computing. The committee now focus on C++
extensions for ISO CLI, the Microsoft middleware platform. Sadly,
they chose the wrong middleware platform. Microsoft has notorious
application software. They never produce a true enterprise level
software. Most of their software products target small companies.
However, the strength of C++ is it can build mission critical systems
which are widely used in such industries like telecom, financial,
transport, medical, and military industries. These systems never can
run on Windows operating system. So, why the committee has to embrace
Microsoft which never treats C++ as a first class language?

Then, there is CORBA middleware platform. You can find CORBA in these
mission critical systems in these industries. CORBA is built in the
mind of C++ and indeed treat C++ the first class language. In some
way, I would think because of CORBA, C++ can still keep up with
competition from other programming languages. It is perfect marriage
between a programming language C++ and middleware platform CORBA. My
question is why C++ standard committee ignores CORBA and embraces
Microsoft? Is it time for our C++ community think hard for where C++
should go? The popularity and growth of C++ is declining. If C++
community doesn't accept the trend of distributed computing and
integrates C++ with a middleware platform, C++ will degrade into a
third class language suitable only for a limited application.

Sorry guys. I messed up ECMA TC39/TG5 with ISO SC22/WG21. But my
point is C++ has a limited run-time system, so, it is better off for
C++ to associate with an ORB that provides run-time environment to
write distributed applications. Unlike other middleware platforms,
CORBA is platform and language independent. C++ is platform
independent. It is nature for C++ and CORBA to collaborate.

Or, C++ committee may consider next C++ standard will support
distributed applications in which I mean the compiler directly
supports distributed system. I know Bjarne Stroustrup is working on a
reflection library which will make writing distributed application
easier. Does C++ committee has such consideration for C++ to support
distributed system?
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[Eugene Alterman]

<ka***@gabi-soft.fr> wrote in message
news:d6******** *************** ***@posting.goo gle.com...

(Note that while CLI and Corba might
both come under the heading of Middleware, they are quite different
things, address different problems, and in most cases at least, don't
compete.)

Why would you say that?
They both address the problem of application interoperabilit y by providing
an object oriented, multilanguage, network transparent environments.
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[kanze]

da**********@ya hoo.com (David Eng) wrote in message
news:<6b******* *************** ****@posting.go ogle.com>...

[...]

Sorry guys. I messed up ECMA TC39/TG5 with ISO SC22/WG21. But my
point is C++ has a limited run-time system, so, it is better off for
C++ to associate with an ORB that provides run-time environment to
write distributed applications. Unlike other middleware platforms,
CORBA is platform and language independent. C++ is platform
independent. It is nature for C++ and CORBA to collaborate.
Collaborate, fine. For the rest, it is precisely because C++ is
platform independant that it doesn't embrace Corba as a prefered
solution, and it is precisely because Corba is language independant that
it doesn't embrace C++ as a prefered solution.

I rather like it this way. Each does what it does best. And I'm free
to use C++ without Corba, or Corba without C++, as well as using both
together.
Or, C++ committee may consider next C++ standard will support
distributed applications in which I mean the compiler directly
supports distributed system.
I hope not. Traditionally, C++ has not supported any particular type of
system directly. The role of a language -- at least a general purpose
language like C++ -- is to provide an essential tool which can be used
on a wide variety of types of systems.
I know Bjarne Stroustrup is working on a reflection library which will
make writing distributed application easier.
I will certainly make writing distributed systems easier. This may even
be the most important use. But it isn't the only one. (The only time I
personally used reflection in Java was for a unit test platform --
nothing to do with distributed systems. But of course, the
implementation of RMI probably uses reflection as well.
Does C++ committee has such consideration for C++ to support
distributed system?

I would expect that it is considered as a possible application. Like
many other things.

--
James Kanze GABI Software mailto:ka***@ga bi-soft.fr
Conseils en informatique orientée objet/ http://www.gabi-soft.fr
Beratung in objektorientier ter Datenverarbeitu ng
9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, [phone]
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