News: .NET framework source code available soon...

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

I'm sure the net will be buzzing with this news fairly soon, but just
in case anyone hasn't seen it yet:

Microsoft are going to make the source code for the .NET framework
(parts of it, including the BCL, ASP.NET and LINQ) available both for
viewing and debugging into.

I won't go into all the details here, as they're covered on Scott
Guthrie's blog:

http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archi...ng-the-source-
code-for-the-net-framework-libraries.aspx
Any comments?

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.co m>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Peter Duniho]

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

I'm sure the net will be buzzing with this news fairly soon, but just
in case anyone hasn't seen it yet:

Microsoft are going to make the source code for the .NET framework
(parts of it, including the BCL, ASP.NET and LINQ) available both for
viewing and debugging into.

[...]
Any comments?

You mean other than it seems that Microsoft is taking some of the best
ideas from the open-source movement?

First they release a free development environment that has very few
really important features missing, and now they are offering the actual
source code for .NET?

As if that weren't great enough, an even cooler part is that the source
will be copied on-demand according to the framework version you're
actually using.

The one major downside I see is the potential for finding .NET
applications where the author took the original .NET code and used that
to create their own custom version of some .NET class, negating one of
the primary benefits of using a framework: using the same well-tested,
broadly-deployed component that everyone else is using.

But I'm guessing that the people who are likely to do that would
probably find other ways to write bad code anyway. :)

I guess the one thing missing from this announcement is how this all
relates to a project like Mono. It would be pretty awesome if Microsoft
would allow the source code to be used for cross-platform
implementations of .NET, and could dramatically decrease the lag of
non-Windows .NET implementations behind the Windows releases.

Pete

[John Duval]

On Oct 3, 2:26 pm, Jon Skeet [C# MVP] <[e-mail] mwrote:

I'm sure the net will be buzzing with this news fairly soon, but just
in case anyone hasn't seen it yet:

Microsoft are going to make the source code for the .NET framework
(parts of it, including the BCL, ASP.NET and LINQ) available both for
viewing and debugging into.

I won't go into all the details here, as they're covered on Scott
Guthrie's blog:

http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archi...ng-the-source-
code-for-the-net-framework-libraries.aspx

Any comments?

--
Jon Skeet - <[e-mail] m>http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog:http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

That's great news... it looks like quite a bit of the framework source
is going to be released. Did you see any mention of parts that they
are *not* planning to release? Scott's article made it sound like
they would be releasing more and more over time.

[Marc Gravell]

Well, that (esp. comment) will make debugging easier... I've grown
weary of trying to infer intent of some obscure corner via reflector!

Intersting times ;-p

Marc

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

John Duval <Jo********@gma il.comwrote:

<snip>

That's great news... it looks like quite a bit of the framework source
is going to be released. Did you see any mention of parts that they
are *not* planning to release? Scott's article made it sound like
they would be releasing more and more over time.

I suspect it's mostly just a matter of time at the moment. I'm sure
there will be *some* bits they won't release but hopefully they'll be
few and far between.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.co m>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Jon Harrop]

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

Any comments?

Wow! :-)

--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u

[Jordan S.]

Will I no longer need Lutz Roeder's Reflector? I was going to be learning
that, but now I'm wondering what the value may be of his Reflector if we can
now get right into the BCL source itself.

Thoughts ?


"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.co mwrote in message
news:MP******** *************@m snews.microsoft .com...

I'm sure the net will be buzzing with this news fairly soon, but just
in case anyone hasn't seen it yet:

Microsoft are going to make the source code for the .NET framework
(parts of it, including the BCL, ASP.NET and LINQ) available both for
viewing and debugging into.

I won't go into all the details here, as they're covered on Scott
Guthrie's blog:

http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archi...ng-the-source-
code-for-the-net-framework-libraries.aspx
Any comments?

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.co m>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Jordan S. <[e-mail] :

Will I no longer need Lutz Roeder's Reflector? I was going to be learning
that, but now I'm wondering what the value may be of his Reflector if we can
now get right into the BCL source itself.

Thoughts ?

Well, there are some other reasons to use Reflector. It does some funky
analysis of use (which I suspect won't be available in VS2008) and I
find it handy for analyzing the IL my own assemblies - a nicer
interface than ildasm, basically.

However, it'll certainly get a lot *less* use now...

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.co m>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Marc Gravell]

Well, there are some other reasons to use Reflector.

Agreed; it will still be to first tool I turn to when I need to use
Reflection.Emit (which is thankfully rare) - i.e. write something
indicative in C#, and investigate the IL via Reflector. Simply, it is
just a lot friendlier than ILDASM ;-p

Plus of course trying to figure out why some non-MS 3rd-party code
isn't working as expected...

Marc

[=?Utf-8?B?Sko=?=]

I hope Microsoft doesn't bundle the licence agreement for access to the
source code with the licence agreement for any other products like Visual
Studio 2008 or others. If they do, they can sue customers who have viewed the
source code for having done so and taken ideas from it. I wouldn't want to
view the source code for such a price. And for that reason, I wouldn't want
to be in a situation where if I had agreed to the licence agreement for, say,
VS2008, I would, by default, be also agreeing to the licence agreement for
the source code.

I think I see a future where I'll be doing all my .NET development with
Visual Studio 2005 and .NET Framework 2.0 if Microsoft should follow such a
path.

I actually loved .NET. Java is so slow doing everything. I haven't bothered
to learn Ruby or Python. I can't stand Linux for being so programmer
unfriendly. And I had left C++ behind for a long time.

I thought Microsoft was a company for software developers. I have been using
their technologies for over 13 years. Now, I think my programming days are
almost over. Unless I learn Ruby or Python, which are not that mainstream.
Nevertheless, I hope I can implement my ideas using them since I love coding
and it's all I want to do.

JJ

"Peter Duniho" wrote:

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

I'm sure the net will be buzzing with this news fairly soon, but just
in case anyone hasn't seen it yet:

Microsoft are going to make the source code for the .NET framework
(parts of it, including the BCL, ASP.NET and LINQ) available both for
viewing and debugging into.

[...]
Any comments?

You mean other than it seems that Microsoft is taking some of the best
ideas from the open-source movement?

First they release a free development environment that has very few
really important features missing, and now they are offering the actual
source code for .NET?

As if that weren't great enough, an even cooler part is that the source
will be copied on-demand according to the framework version you're
actually using.

The one major downside I see is the potential for finding .NET
applications where the author took the original .NET code and used that
to create their own custom version of some .NET class, negating one of
the primary benefits of using a framework: using the same well-tested,
broadly-deployed component that everyone else is using.

But I'm guessing that the people who are likely to do that would
probably find other ways to write bad code anyway. :)

I guess the one thing missing from this announcement is how this all
relates to a project like Mono. It would be pretty awesome if Microsoft
would allow the source code to be used for cross-platform
implementations of .NET, and could dramatically decrease the lag of
non-Windows .NET implementations behind the Windows releases.

Pete