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Fellow programmers,

How many people are paid to write frameworks in c# ?
What kind of frameworks are they developing ?

Regards,

Rick

Dec 22 '05 #1
6 1736
"Rick Elbers" <ri*********@ch ello.nl> a écrit dans le message de news:
28************* *************** ****@4ax.com...

| How many people are paid to write frameworks in c# ?
| What kind of frameworks are they developing ?

I am. Value Type Framework, Validation Framework, Object Persistence
Framework and Model View Presenter.

Joanna

--
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
Consultant Software Engineer
Dec 22 '05 #2
Joanna,

Thanks for your response. What does teamB behind your name means ?
I see that you are writing what I would call technical support
frameworks. Btw I dont consider MVP a framework but more a pattern.
Do you also know about people who write domain specific frameworks
in c#?

Rick

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:52:58 -0000, "Joanna Carter [TeamB]"
<jo****@not.for .spam> wrote:
"Rick Elbers" <ri*********@ch ello.nl> a écrit dans le message de news:
28************ *************** *****@4ax.com.. .

| How many people are paid to write frameworks in c# ?
| What kind of frameworks are they developing ?

I am. Value Type Framework, Validation Framework, Object Persistence
Framework and Model View Presenter.

Joanna


Dec 23 '05 #3
Rick Elbers <ri*********@ch ello.nl> wrote:
Thanks for your response. What does teamB behind your name means ?


See

http://support.borland .com/entry!default.j spa?categoryID= 177
&externalID=296 &fromSearchPage =true

(aka http://tinyurl.com/b54lk)

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.co m>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Dec 23 '05 #4
"Rick Elbers" <ri*********@ch ello.nl> a écrit dans le message de news:
me************* *************** ****@4ax.com...

| Thanks for your response. What does teamB behind your name means ?

See John's reply :-)

| I see that you are writing what I would call technical support
| frameworks. Btw I dont consider MVP a framework but more a pattern.

MVP may be a pattern, but it can be implemented by a framework that can be
re-used time and time again. True Design Patterns are usually coding
guidelines that have to be written anew for every use; my MVP framework is a
standard code library that can be extended, but that doesn't need re-writing
every time I use it.

| Do you also know about people who write domain specific frameworks
| in c#?

Certainly, I do that as well. I work as a consultant and OO architect for
companies who want their software writing or refactoring using OO design
patterns, frameworks and principles.

Joanna

--
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
Consultant Software Engineer
Dec 23 '05 #5
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 14:16:50 -0000, "Joanna Carter [TeamB]"
<jo****@not.for .spam> wrote:
"Rick Elbers" <ri*********@ch ello.nl> a écrit dans le message de news:
me************ *************** *****@4ax.com.. .

| Thanks for your response. What does teamB behind your name means ?

See John's reply :-)

| I see that you are writing what I would call technical support
| frameworks. Btw I dont consider MVP a framework but more a pattern.

MVP may be a pattern, but it can be implemented by a framework that can be
re-used time and time again. True Design Patterns are usually coding
guidelines that have to be written anew for every use; my MVP framework is a
standard code library that can be extended, but that doesn't need re-writing
every time I use it.
Therefore it has nothing to do with a framework. The Design Pattern
construct is widely abused as coding guideline while it used to be a
gate for your thought process. Its about finding the timeless way of
coding. Ofcourse for .net you have to make a few extensions to the
framework to make it support true MVP. That could be worthwhile.

Apart from that to the original question: Their are quit a few domain
specific design patterns for sometimes really difficult domain
specific problems mostly put together in pattern catalogs but I never
ever see anyone in c# refer to those highly specific patterns or
domains.


| Do you also know about people who write domain specific frameworks
| in c#?

Certainly, I do that as well. I work as a consultant and OO architect for
companies who want their software writing or refactoring using OO design
patterns, frameworks and principles.
Interesting, what kind of domain specific frameworks are written in c#
?

99% of what i see is application development, 90 % of which
esssentially 2-tier administrative. I havent seen something "smart" in
c# applications for a long time. That doesnt mean that its easy to
make good user interfaces for dataentry and dataview, but that the
applications itself are merely trackers of business processes and
rather dumb in that they dont give added value to the process besides
persistence and overview. OO design then is merely waste of time and
effort.

I am looking for smart frameworks or applications in c# in which
processes can really be automated or get a quality boost by the
applications..d o you know any( MVP as variant of MVC is a very bad
call their since its mostly and most strongly used in administrative
apps or at least in the less interesting part of smart applications ).


Joanna

Rick

Dec 26 '05 #6
"Rick Elbers" <ri*********@ch ello.nl> a écrit dans le message de news:
81************* *************** ****@4ax.com...

| >MVP may be a pattern, but it can be implemented by a framework that can
be
| >re-used time and time again. True Design Patterns are usually coding
| >guidelines that have to be written anew for every use; my MVP framework
is a
| >standard code library that can be extended, but that doesn't need
re-writing
| >every time I use it.
|
| Therefore it has nothing to do with a framework.

A framework is a library of code that can be used over and over again
without having to recode it, as opposed to a pattern which must be coded
every time.

| Of course for .net you have to make a few extensions to the
| framework to make it support true MVP. That could be worthwhile.

You can start by working from the essential MVP requirements and then write
a framework based on that pattern. Certainly, MVP could be described as a
pattern but when it is executed in a particular programming environment, it
then becomes a framework.

| Apart from that to the original question: Their are quit a few domain
| specific design patterns for sometimes really difficult domain
| specific problems mostly put together in pattern catalogs but I never
| ever see anyone in c# refer to those highly specific patterns or
| domains.

If patterns are domain specific, it is unlikely that they will appear in too
many catalogues as catalogues are usually generic by their nature.

| Interesting, what kind of domain specific frameworks are written in c#
| ?

I would suppose that, as C# is an all-purpose programming language, that you
could write whatever frameworks that you required. I certainly haven't found
any domain that I could not code in C#.

| 99% of what i see is application development, 90 % of which
| esssentially 2-tier administrative. I havent seen something "smart" in
| c# applications for a long time. That doesnt mean that its easy to
| make good user interfaces for dataentry and dataview, but that the
| applications itself are merely trackers of business processes and
| rather dumb in that they dont give added value to the process besides
| persistence and overview. OO design then is merely waste of time and
| effort.

I don't understand your line of argument here, how does the type of
application invalidate the use of good OO design principles ? Good OO
applications ensure that business logic is appropriately allocated to the
classes that are responsible for the management of the data related to that
business logic; instead of the standard data in a datbase, somle logic in
stored procs and the rest in the GUI.

I have consulted for many companies that have written "simple" "non-OO"
applications that have ended up tying themselves in knots trying to avoid OO
and ending up with unmaintainable, un-upgradable applications. Once they
enforce OO design principles, all of a sudden they end up with applications
that are easy to maintain, debug and upgrade and that have measurably less
bugs at release date.

| I am looking for smart frameworks or applications in c# in which
| processes can really be automated or get a quality boost by the
| applications..d o you know any( MVP as variant of MVC is a very bad
| call their since its mostly and most strongly used in administrative
| apps or at least in the less interesting part of smart applications ).

I have used MVP in a variety of different applications. The purpose of MVP
is to allow the decoupling of the UI layer from the business layer,
regardless of the business domain. I have used MVP to implement the UI for
an application that monitors in real-time, the interaction between injection
moulding machines and scheduling software using file transfer messaging
protocol.

Does that count as an interesting domain ?

Joanna

--
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
Consultant Software Engineer
Dec 26 '05 #7

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