C# and VB.Net?

[Mantorok]

Hi all

We are an organisation that use C# currently and we have some members who
are not yet trained in .Net or C#, some staff have requested they use VB
instead (probably due to their background).

Given that we are already using C# I think adding VB into the mix is a bad
idea - not with regards to the language itself but the fact that the VB.Net
coders won't learn C# and possibly vice-versa.

Apart from the business reasons not to introduce a 2nd .Net language, are
there any sites with un-biased views as to why both languages are in
effect - equal?

Thanks

[Mantorok]

"Ignacio Machin ( .NET/ C# MVP )" <ignacio.mach in AT dot.state.fl.us > wrote
in message news:e4******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...

Hi,

Yes - it is preference at the end of the day, our boss wants us to
provide specifics about each languag - which is wrong, it doesn't take a
genius to realise that introducing another language into the mix is going
to cause problems amongst staff.

Well, in VB you can have a more relaxed type assignment. which is bad IMO
.
string s = theDataTable("C olumn") is acceptable , no need to convert it
to string

So what happens at runtime if theDataTable("C olumn") is integer? It bombs
presumably?
Also something that I find incredible that in the 21th century is not
deprecated is the need to place a "_" if you want to write an instruction
in more than one line

Yep, we had that in FoxPro and I hated it....except it was ; rather than _.

[Michael S]

I would have done much better in Swedish. English is not my first language.
Now go away Troll. There is no food here! Or do you have an opinion youself?

- Michael S

"Harry Simpson" <hs*******@phgt .net> wrote in message
news:Oh******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...

A truly unbiased opinion from someone that can't even get the English
language subject verb agreement thing down.

"Mantorok" <no**@tiscali.c o.uk> wrote in message
news:dn******** **@newsfeed.th. ifl.net...

Thanks very much Micael - I think you've hit the nail well and truly on
the head - this is an excellent example to take to my meeting.

"Michael S" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:e9******** *********@TK2MS FTNGP10.phx.gbl ...

"Mantorok" <no**@tiscali.c o.uk> wrote in message
news:dn******** **@newsfeed.th. ifl.net...
Hi all

We are an organisation that use C# currently and we have some members
who are not yet trained in .Net or C#, some staff have requested they
use VB instead (probably due to their background).

Given that we are already using C# I think adding VB into the mix is a
bad idea - not with regards to the language itself but the fact that
the VB.Net coders won't learn C# and possibly vice-versa.

Apart from the business reasons not to introduce a 2nd .Net language,
are there any sites with un-biased views as to why both languages are
in effect - equal?

Thanks

Hi Mantrorok.

As part of my work I train VB6 developers becomming .NET developers.
Both in-house, but we also sell this service to our customers. Hence, I
have trained VBers in both VB.NET and C#, and I have noticed some
important issues with the two languages.

VB6 devs learning C# - pretty soon learns to forget everything they know
about what they used to do, and adopt OO-principles. C# is new and they
think in new directions.

However, the VBers that moves to VB.NET typically have a lot slower
learning-curve. As the syntax is so like the old basic, they tend to
think of VB.NET as just another complex Visual Basic alas more complex.

And the latter group typically don't adopt OO-principles. They still
view a class as some module you just put code and som Dims in, they keep
on concatinating strings, declaring their arrays, and don't get why an
ArrayList or a StringBuilder could ever be useful. The think in terms of
variables and don't get the 'reference on stack, object on heap' model
and can't undestand why passing a huge array to a method would be the
bad thing.

Just this monday I visited a customer to do some simple maintainance for
them, and their VB.NET devs still prefix their types like they was
variants: strName, lngAge, objSqlConnectio n. It is so bleeding obvious
why they choosed VB.NET, not becuase they like it, but becuase they
liked what they had. They want to continue coding in same old way as
they are used to. I think most of them are also frustrated with .NET and
just think it's complex and bothersome.

Another thing about VB.NET and OO is the weird syntax, C# maps pretty
well to common concepts in the OO world, while VB.NET is harder to
teach:

If I want to make this method abstract do I mark it as abstract?

C# - - Yes.

VB.NET - No Sir! You write mustinherit.

While I hate VB in any form and truly think that Visual Basic Sucks So
Hard It Bends Light -
I tried to give you some real exemples of my experience with teaching
.NET to VBers.

Hope this helped
- Michael S

[philippedoucette]

I have developed in every version of Microsoft BASIC from the original
ROM chip that shipped with the IBM PC, under every version of DOS and
Windows. Every single one. I finally made the jump to C# and I must
tell you I am so happy. It is true that the OO syntax of C# is true to
the principals of OO so that it will change the way you think when you
program. When I was trying to do OO in VB, I carried with me all my
experience as dead weight and did not do real OO programming. Your
programmers will be better programmers in the long run if they learn
C#. Your code will be more maintainable and you will have a better
product.

[Michael S]

"Mantorok" <no**@tiscali.c o.uk> wrote in message
news:dn******** **@newsfeed.th. ifl.net...

"Ignacio Machin ( .NET/ C# MVP )" <ignacio.mach in AT dot.state.fl.us >
wrote in message news:e4******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...

Hi,

Yes - it is preference at the end of the day, our boss wants us to
provide specifics about each languag - which is wrong, it doesn't take a
genius to realise that introducing another language into the mix is
going to cause problems amongst staff.

Well, in VB you can have a more relaxed type assignment. which is bad IMO
.
string s = theDataTable("C olumn") is acceptable , no need to convert it
to string

So what happens at runtime if theDataTable("C olumn") is integer? It bombs
presumably?

Also something that I find incredible that in the 21th century is not
deprecated is the need to place a "_" if you want to write an instruction
in more than one line

Yep, we had that in FoxPro and I hated it....except it was ; rather than
_.

Those where the days... =)

However, true basic must be in ALL CAPS and use line-numbers. I miss my
C-64.
My first program was on a ABC-80 (In Swedish as I was 8 years old and we are
not taught English until 10):

10 INPUT "WHAT IS YOUR NAME "; X$
20 PRINT "HELLO "; X$

- Michael S

[Ignacio Machin \( .NET/ C# MVP \)]

Hi,
"Mantorok" <no**@tiscali.c o.uk> wrote in message
news:dn******** **@newsfeed.th. ifl.net...

"Ignacio Machin ( .NET/ C# MVP )" <ignacio.mach in AT dot.state.fl.us >
wrote in message news:e4******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...

Hi,

Yes - it is preference at the end of the day, our boss wants us to
provide specifics about each languag - which is wrong, it doesn't take a
genius to realise that introducing another language into the mix is
going to cause problems amongst staff.

Well, in VB you can have a more relaxed type assignment. which is bad IMO
.
string s = theDataTable("C olumn") is acceptable , no need to convert it
to string

So what happens at runtime if theDataTable("C olumn") is integer? It bombs
presumably?

I Nop, it gets converted in a string, now the opposite (assigning a string
to a integer) throw an exception
cheers,

--
Ignacio Machin,
ignacio.machin AT dot.state.fl.us
Florida Department Of Transportation

[Michael S]

<ph************ **@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11******** **************@ z14g2000cwz.goo glegroups.com.. .

I have developed in every version of Microsoft BASIC from the original
ROM chip that shipped with the IBM PC, under every version of DOS and
Windows. Every single one. I finally made the jump to C# and I must
tell you I am so happy. It is true that the OO syntax of C# is true to
the principals of OO so that it will change the way you think when you
program. When I was trying to do OO in VB, I carried with me all my
experience as dead weight and did not do real OO programming. Your
programmers will be better programmers in the long run if they learn
C#. Your code will be more maintainable and you will have a better
product.

I so totally agree with you.

I remember when I learned how VB.NET handles their weird AND/OR handling by
introducing AndAlso/OrElse. Didn't know if to cry or laugh. What a stupid
thing to do.

I think we should have the OrElse keyword in C#. But only as an empty
keyword to threaten the compiler:

myList.Add(mySt ring) OrElse;

Or maybe it could be used to eat exceptions. Hey, that would be quite handy
sometimes. Better email Anders Hejlsberg as to explain my new
language-feature! =)

- Michael S

[Mantorok]

"Michael S" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. ..

<ph************ **@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11******** **************@ z14g2000cwz.goo glegroups.com.. .

I have developed in every version of Microsoft BASIC from the original
ROM chip that shipped with the IBM PC, under every version of DOS and
Windows. Every single one. I finally made the jump to C# and I must
tell you I am so happy. It is true that the OO syntax of C# is true to
the principals of OO so that it will change the way you think when you
program. When I was trying to do OO in VB, I carried with me all my
experience as dead weight and did not do real OO programming. Your
programmers will be better programmers in the long run if they learn
C#. Your code will be more maintainable and you will have a better
product.

I so totally agree with you.

I remember when I learned how VB.NET handles their weird AND/OR handling
by introducing AndAlso/OrElse. Didn't know if to cry or laugh. What a
stupid thing to do.

My good lord that's awful, the amount of patchwork being applied to the
already confusing language is just going to make it ten times worse.

[iWeb]

Hi,
New here so be kind... :)

I found this link sometime back when asked by fellow (VB Experienced)
developers the same question.

"Difference s Between Visual Basic .NET and Visual C# .NET"
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;308470

I've worked in VB6 since 1999 but since being involved in c# projects for
the past 3 years, my first preference is c#.

--
iWeb
.... for lack of a better nickname.

"Mantorok" wrote:

Hi all

We are an organisation that use C# currently and we have some members who
are not yet trained in .Net or C#, some staff have requested they use VB
instead (probably due to their background).

Given that we are already using C# I think adding VB into the mix is a bad
idea - not with regards to the language itself but the fact that the VB.Net
coders won't learn C# and possibly vice-versa.

Apart from the business reasons not to introduce a 2nd .Net language, are
there any sites with un-biased views as to why both languages are in
effect - equal?

Thanks

[Mythran]

"Michael S" <[e-mail]> wrote in message
news:ue******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl...

I would have done much better in Swedish. English is not my first language.
Now go away Troll. There is no food here! Or do you have an opinion
youself?

- Michael S

Don't listen to that other guy. English is my only spoken language
(although, I should say BAD english is my only spoken language), and you did
as good or better than I could do :) The other guy just wants to make it
look like he's perfect and in doing so, he made himself look like a
jack-#$!...

:)

Mythran

[M. Genuini]

>10 INPUT "WHAT IS YOUR NAME "; X$

20 PRINT "HELLO "; X$

30 INPUT "CONTINUE ? <Y/N>"; Y$
40 IF Y$ = "Y" THEN GOTO 1O
50 PRINT "BYE BYE"

^_________^