Good lord, when do I get to actually program?

[John Salerno]

Ok, I've been reading an intro book to C# and I'm learning a lot of the
basics. I can follow along with all the sample code and understand
exactly what it's doing, but I know there's no way I'd be able to write
the code myself.

Also, it seems like every time I come here, or read info online, there
is so much complicated stuff that I haven't even seen yet. Basically
what I'm wanting to know is, how long do you expect it to take a
hobbyist to actually be able to write programs? I know right now I'm
just learning the basics, but I'm having trouble seeing myself bridging
the gap from basics to actual programmer. Did anyone here learn a lot on
your own, or did you have formal training?

Just trying to gauge how I'm going to progress, I suppose...

[John Salerno]

I appreciate all of those responses! I was a little afraid that I might
get some "Then just stop learning to program" replies, but you were all
very understanding and helpful.

Basically, my background is a year of C++ in high school (so obviously
not too indepth, but it's amazing how much of that has stuck with me
over the years and that is helping me remember and learn new things
now). I've always been interested in programming, for some reason. I
just find the subject fascinating, and I enjoy the learning process as
much as actually *doing* it, but I'd still like to make something
eventually! :)

Recently I began creating game modules for a game called Neverinter
Nights, and for a while I was using a script generator to make the
scripts I needed. But one day I started reading about what a couple of
functions did, and once I began to really *see* what they were doing as
I wrote them myself, I picked up that scripting language in a matter of
days. Granted, it's not a high-level programming language, but it was a
decent accomplishment.

For now I think my goals are to learn the basics of C#, then move on to
Windows Forms, then finally Web Forms (still not sure what these are,
anyway). I don't really know a lot about API, ASP.NET, .NET Framework,
etc. etc. Like I said, my background is slim and I'm purely a hobbyist,
at least for now. (Let's just say no one's going to hire me as a
software architect any time soon!)

But I plan on re-reading all these posts and keeping at it. It's
something I enjoy, I just need to remind myself not to get overwhelmed
with too much at once.

[John Salerno]

John Salerno wrote:

I appreciate all of those responses! I was a little afraid that I might
get some "Then just stop learning to program" replies, but you were all
very understanding and helpful.

Basically, my background is a year of C++ in high school (so obviously
not too indepth, but it's amazing how much of that has stuck with me
over the years and that is helping me remember and learn new things
now). I've always been interested in programming, for some reason. I
just find the subject fascinating, and I enjoy the learning process as
much as actually *doing* it, but I'd still like to make something
eventually! :)

Recently I began creating game modules for a game called Neverinter
Nights, and for a while I was using a script generator to make the
scripts I needed. But one day I started reading about what a couple of
functions did, and once I began to really *see* what they were doing as
I wrote them myself, I picked up that scripting language in a matter of
days. Granted, it's not a high-level programming language, but it was a
decent accomplishment.

For now I think my goals are to learn the basics of C#, then move on to
Windows Forms, then finally Web Forms (still not sure what these are,
anyway). I don't really know a lot about API, ASP.NET, .NET Framework,
etc. etc. Like I said, my background is slim and I'm purely a hobbyist,
at least for now. (Let's just say no one's going to hire me as a
software architect any time soon!)

But I plan on re-reading all these posts and keeping at it. It's
something I enjoy, I just need to remind myself not to get overwhelmed
with too much at once.

P.S. Right now I have SharpDevelop and Key of C# as IDEs, along with
UltraEdit and other text editors. I don't have any Microsoft IDEs yet,
because I'm waiting for the final release of the Express Editions, then
I plan on getting the one for C#, and eventually Web Developer.

[Steve Walker]

In message <Ol************ **@TK2MSFTNGP14 .phx.gbl>, "Willy Denoyette
[MVP]" <wi************ *@telenet.be> writes

If you are new to programming start by learning the basics of the OO
paradigm using one of the platform languages

I agree with Willy, absolutely. You can learn the C# language very
quickly, particularly if you have previously used C++. You can find out
how to achieve a particular objective using the framework classes as and
when you need to do so; the library is huge, and much of it may never
actually do something you want.

Properly understanding object orientation will take longer, but it is
worth doing, and it will make writing large, complex programs much
easier than trying to write them using a procedural style.

A good book on design patterns may also help, even if much of it seems
incomprehensibl e to begin with. The point of this is that it will
explain certain ways of structuring systems which have proven to be
useful for others and which you can then apply to your own problems.

I like "Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture" (Fowler), but
it is focused on building corporate systems, and I think the value of a
lot of it only really hits home if you already have experience of the
problems being solved.

--
Steve Walker

[Gabriel Lozano-Morán]

Why not download the Visual C# Express Edition at
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/vcsharp/ and play around with that?

Gabriel Lozano-Morán

"John Salerno" <jo******@NOSPA Mgmail.com> wrote in message
news:TN******** ************@rc n.net...

John Salerno wrote:

I appreciate all of those responses! I was a little afraid that I might
get some "Then just stop learning to program" replies, but you were all
very understanding and helpful.

Basically, my background is a year of C++ in high school (so obviously
not too indepth, but it's amazing how much of that has stuck with me over
the years and that is helping me remember and learn new things now). I've
always been interested in programming, for some reason. I just find the
subject fascinating, and I enjoy the learning process as much as actually
*doing* it, but I'd still like to make something eventually! :)

Recently I began creating game modules for a game called Neverinter
Nights, and for a while I was using a script generator to make the
scripts I needed. But one day I started reading about what a couple of
functions did, and once I began to really *see* what they were doing as I
wrote them myself, I picked up that scripting language in a matter of
days. Granted, it's not a high-level programming language, but it was a
decent accomplishment.

For now I think my goals are to learn the basics of C#, then move on to
Windows Forms, then finally Web Forms (still not sure what these are,
anyway). I don't really know a lot about API, ASP.NET, .NET Framework,
etc. etc. Like I said, my background is slim and I'm purely a hobbyist,
at least for now. (Let's just say no one's going to hire me as a software
architect any time soon!)

But I plan on re-reading all these posts and keeping at it. It's
something I enjoy, I just need to remind myself not to get overwhelmed
with too much at once.

P.S. Right now I have SharpDevelop and Key of C# as IDEs, along with
UltraEdit and other text editors. I don't have any Microsoft IDEs yet,
because I'm waiting for the final release of the Express Editions, then I
plan on getting the one for C#, and eventually Web Developer.

[John Salerno]

Steve Walker wrote:

Properly understanding object orientation will take longer, but it is
worth doing, and it will make writing large, complex programs much
easier than trying to write them using a procedural style.

Yes, you couldn't be more right. After learning a scripting language, I
think I'm inclined to look at a program procedurally (plus, it just
seems like the default way of writing a program, i.e. one thing happens
after another). Object-oriented program is starting to take shape for
me, but I'm still not quite comfortable with it yet.

[John Salerno]

Gabriel Lozano-Morán wrote:

Why not download the Visual C# Express Edition at
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/vcsharp/ and play around with that?

I'd like to, but I've heard that sometimes you have to reformt to
completely get rid of the betas, and I don't want to do that. I'm afraid
if I just uninstall it (even by following all those detailed steps),
that something might somehow get left behind and affect the final
version when I install that.

Unfounded concerns?