Microsoft Losing Interest in C#?

[Michael Adams]

I don't know if you have noticed, but it seems like Microsoft is losing
interest in C#, and putting their energy into Visual Basic.NET instead.

For instance, online chats by language since July 1, 2004:

VB.NET 47
C# 6
C++ 8
J# 0

ADO with VB.NET 6
ADO with C# 0
ADO with C++ 0
ADO with J# 0

Windows Forms with VB.NET 2
Windows Forms with C# 0
Windows Forms with C++ 0
Windows Forms with J# 0

If you look at the roadmap Microsoft has laid out for Visual Studio 2005 and
the various languages, it appears almost all of the RAD improvements are for
VB.NET. The only thing I see coming for C# are a few language enhancements,
but really nothing for RAD. Yes, C# programmers want granularity, but we
don't get paid unless the projects go out, too! You have to get it out the
door. When is Microsoft going to wake up to this?

I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't put the same kind of energy into
the languages that start with a "C" as they do a "B"...and then they wonder
why people defect to Java, PHP, or even C++ on other platforms.

Maybe it's time for C# people to speak up.

Michael

[James Curran]

"Michael Adams" <no****@nomail. com> wrote in message
news:lo******** ************@sp eakeasy.net...

I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't put the same kind of energy into
the languages that start with a "C" as they do a "B"...and then they wonder why people defect to Java, PHP, or even C++ on other platforms.

It's because there are about 10X as many VB programmers as there are
C/C++/C# programmers.

--
Truth,
James Curran
Home: www.noveltheory.com Work: www.njtheater.com
Blog: www.honestillusion.com Day Job: www.partsearch.com
(note new day job!)

[Mark Rae]

"Michael Adams" <no****@nomail. com> wrote in message
news:lo******** ************@sp eakeasy.net...

I don't know if you have noticed, but it seems like Microsoft is losing
interest in C#, and putting their energy into Visual Basic.NET instead.

I would disagree entirely! If that were the case, why does C# even exist...?
It's always been my opinion that it was Microsoft's intention to come up
with a language like C# which had (pretty much) all of the functionality of
C++ but was (almost) as easy to programme in as VB. I think James Curran's
point about the number of people still heavily in the VB(.NET) camp is spot
on, but fully expect that to diminish as C# erodes the VB user base.

[Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]]

One reason why there seems to have been an apparent tendency for programmers from all backgrounds to move to C#, a uge number of VB programmers haven't moved to .NET yet. IMO there is a concerted effort to move much more of the VB6 community to managed code and with the changes introduced in VB.NET 2.0 a number of the things that made VB.NET unattractive to VB6 programmers (such as lack of edit and continue) have been addressed.

Regards

Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor

http://staff.develop.com/richardb/weblog

nntp://news.microsoft. com/microsoft.publi c.dotnet.langua ges.csharp/<eW************ **@TK2MSFTNGP09 .phx.gbl>

"Michael Adams" <no****@nomail. com> wrote in message
news:lo******** ************@sp eakeasy.net...

I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't put the same kind of energy into
the languages that start with a "C" as they do a "B"...and then they wonder why people defect to Java, PHP, or even C++ on other platforms.

It's because there are about 10X as many VB programmers as there are
C/C++/C# programmers.

--
Truth,
James Curran
Home: www.noveltheory.com Work: www.njtheater.com
Blog: www.honestillusion.com Day Job: www.partsearch.com
(note new day job!)

---
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[microsoft.publi c.dotnet.langua ges.csharp]

[Michael Adams]

Mark,

I said they seem to be *losing* interest, not that they didn't have any
interest before. I think C# exists because it was Microsoft's answer to
Java. They accomplished that, and now their focus seems to be on VB. C# is
floundering. My feeling is that every RAD tool they come out with on VB
(except ones which just won't work due to language differences), should be
included with, what was their flagship language, C#.

This is problem when you get marketing types running the show. They want to
pigeon hole every product. This language is for this, that language is for
that. Nonsense. C# could do all of it (other than some performance apps
that need native C++), if they put some effort into it.

Michael

"Mark Rae" <ma**@mark-N-O-S-P-A-M-rae.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Oq******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...

"Michael Adams" <no****@nomail. com> wrote in message
news:lo******** ************@sp eakeasy.net...

I don't know if you have noticed, but it seems like Microsoft is losing
interest in C#, and putting their energy into Visual Basic.NET instead.
I would disagree entirely! If that were the case, why does C# even

exist...? It's always been my opinion that it was Microsoft's intention to come up
with a language like C# which had (pretty much) all of the functionality of C++ but was (almost) as easy to programme in as VB. I think James Curran's
point about the number of people still heavily in the VB(.NET) camp is spot on, but fully expect that to diminish as C# erodes the VB user base.

[Michael Adams]

That's fine, but why don't they migrate the new features to C#, too?

Michael
"Richard Blewett [DevelopMentor]" <ri******@devel op.com> wrote in message
news:#N******** *****@TK2MSFTNG P10.phx.gbl...

One reason why there seems to have been an apparent tendency for programmers from all backgrounds to move to C#, a uge number of VB
programmers haven't moved to .NET yet. IMO there is a concerted effort to
move much more of the VB6 community to managed code and with the changes
introduced in VB.NET 2.0 a number of the things that made VB.NET
unattractive to VB6 programmers (such as lack of edit and continue) have
been addressed.
Regards

Richard Blewett - DevelopMentor

http://staff.develop.com/richardb/weblog

nntp://news.microsoft. com/microsoft.publi c.dotnet.langua ges.csharp/<eWDRSfPn
EH******@TK2MSF TNGP09.phx.gbl>
"Michael Adams" <no****@nomail. com> wrote in message
news:lo******** ************@sp eakeasy.net...

> I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't put the same kind of energy into > the languages that start with a "C" as they do a "B"...and then they

wonder

> why people defect to Java, PHP, or even C++ on other platforms.

It's because there are about 10X as many VB programmers as there are
C/C++/C# programmers.

--
Truth,
James Curran
Home: www.noveltheory.com Work: www.njtheater.com
Blog: www.honestillusion.com Day Job: www.partsearch.com
(note new day job!)

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[microsoft.publi c.dotnet.langua ges.csharp]

[Michael C]

And here I thought C# was originally a knee-jerk reaction to go head-to-head
with Java. Not that I'm not enjoying the heck out of learning C#... Now
that I've written in C#, VB seems clunky and obfuscated -- I can barely
force myself to write any VB code these days...

Thanks,
Michael C., MCDBA

"Mark Rae" <ma**@mark-N-O-S-P-A-M-rae.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Oq******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl...

"Michael Adams" <no****@nomail. com> wrote in message
news:lo******** ************@sp eakeasy.net...

I don't know if you have noticed, but it seems like Microsoft is losing
interest in C#, and putting their energy into Visual Basic.NET instead.
I would disagree entirely! If that were the case, why does C# even

exist...? It's always been my opinion that it was Microsoft's intention to come up
with a language like C# which had (pretty much) all of the functionality of C++ but was (almost) as easy to programme in as VB. I think James Curran's
point about the number of people still heavily in the VB(.NET) camp is spot on, but fully expect that to diminish as C# erodes the VB user base.

[Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]]

"Michael Adams" <no****@nomail. com> wrote in message
news:Ue******** ************@sp eakeasy.net...

That's fine, but why don't they migrate the new features to C#, too?

What features do you mean?
E&C? The team has commited to it, just not in whidbey.
My? Not C# worthy, IMHO.
Silly IDE features? Not really important, honestly.

What is it you feel isn't there?

[Bob Grommes]

I think MSFT is just on a big push to move VB6 developers to VB.NET. That's
a big audience they don't want to lose.

--Bob

"Michael Adams" <no****@nomail. com> wrote in message
news:lo******** ************@sp eakeasy.net...

I don't know if you have noticed, but it seems like Microsoft is losing
interest in C#, and putting their energy into Visual Basic.NET instead.

For instance, online chats by language since July 1, 2004:

VB.NET 47
C# 6
C++ 8
J# 0

ADO with VB.NET 6
ADO with C# 0
ADO with C++ 0
ADO with J# 0

Windows Forms with VB.NET 2
Windows Forms with C# 0
Windows Forms with C++ 0
Windows Forms with J# 0

If you look at the roadmap Microsoft has laid out for Visual Studio 2005 and the various languages, it appears almost all of the RAD improvements are for VB.NET. The only thing I see coming for C# are a few language enhancements, but really nothing for RAD. Yes, C# programmers want granularity, but we
don't get paid unless the projects go out, too! You have to get it out the door. When is Microsoft going to wake up to this?

I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't put the same kind of energy into
the languages that start with a "C" as they do a "B"...and then they wonder why people defect to Java, PHP, or even C++ on other platforms.

Maybe it's time for C# people to speak up.

Michael

[Drebin]

I'm afraid to say one word, because I get all amped up over this, but what
people call "features" of VB.NET (especially 2005) - I call a bad mistake
and a concept that "ruins" .NET in my mind. It's one thing to have
language-specific timesavers (like a tertiary expression vs. full-blown
if/then/else) - but did you know they retrofitted "line input"? and this
"My" namespace, which has functionality that is NOT in C# - not cool.
Language features that save time, sure - but actually Framework
functionality that isn't supported in another language? Not cool brother.

What you are calling "silly features" are the BEDROCK that VB6 developers
are counting on.. I can see it clearly right now.. an Excel -> Access ->
VB -> VB.NET developer (you know the kind - a "point and click duh-veloper")
can now use .NET because the language conformed to their laziness.. so now,
you take over their crappy code and it uses these "silly features" that
aren't supported in C#!!

And it wasn't until I had a long discussion with one these types of
developers about "line input".. and I gave him a couple alternatives
(basically wrapping various System.IO classes and wrapping functionality) -
but he was COMPLETELY turned off by .NET because "I have to write 50 extra
lines of code now, and it still does do what I want - it's not 'line
input'!" (although he does have a point!).

Since the very first tidbit I heard about .NET - I've always said that VB
will be the contamination in an otherwise FANTASTIC idea!! VB is the cancer
that will ruin .NET. It's not "just another language" - it's already
becoming non-standard and niche, which is what VB's problem has always been.
It's so messed up that it can get a "fresh start" where they didn't need to
be backwards compatible, but yet within 2 releases, they are falling into
old habits. This is like when you keep accidentally hooking up with an old
girlfriend, you know you shouldn't, but you rationalize it. The steering
group for VB need to just make a clean break and stop going back to what's
comfortable for once!

Ugh. I knew I shouldn't have started talking about this!
"Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]" <[e-mail]> wrote in
message news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP15.phx.gbl. ..

"Michael Adams" <no****@nomail. com> wrote in message
news:Ue******** ************@sp eakeasy.net...

That's fine, but why don't they migrate the new features to C#, too?

What features do you mean?
E&C? The team has commited to it, just not in whidbey.
My? Not C# worthy, IMHO.
Silly IDE features? Not really important, honestly.

What is it you feel isn't there?