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Help me sell SQL Server over MySQL...

I'm trying to convince my client that MySQL server is not the way to go for
his project. Here are some reasons why...
- If you use the MySQL Connector you are bound to GPL (unless you want to
pay $$$)
- Doesn't work as good "out of the box" with Visual Studio 2008

Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking about
using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Sep 13 '08 #1
15 1154
"Cirene" <ci****@nowhere.comwrote in message
news:eO****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
- Doesn't work as good "out of the box" with Visual Studio 2008
That may be the case if you are used to the data elements in the Toolbox,
SqlDataSource objects etc. If you're using a DAL, then the above is
irrelevant...
Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL?
If by "better" you mean "better as the backend RDBMS for a web application",
then I can't think of any...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Sep 13 '08 #2
They are both good products, but a lot of future MS technology will mandate
MS SQL to run.

What does your technical roadmap look like. If its going to be based on
products that rely heavily on MS SQL, or are optimized for mySQL then its a
no-brainer. If they already have support in place for 1 version of a SQL
server then introducing a new DB support cost and learning exercise will
easily outweight the cost of the licences.

Regards

John Timney (MVP)
VISIT MY WEBSITE:
http://www.johntimney.com
http://www.johntimney.com/blog
"Mark Rae [MVP]" <ma**@markNOSPAMrae.netwrote in message
news:uI**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
"Cirene" <ci****@nowhere.comwrote in message
news:eO****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>- Doesn't work as good "out of the box" with Visual Studio 2008

That may be the case if you are used to the data elements in the Toolbox,
SqlDataSource objects etc. If you're using a DAL, then the above is
irrelevant...
>Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL?

If by "better" you mean "better as the backend RDBMS for a web
application", then I can't think of any...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Sep 13 '08 #3
It all comes down to maintenance.

If the person already has experince/applications with MySql then i would
advice to stick with MySql.
Yes, it means more pain for you as a developer but to operate companies with
the bunch of mixed technologies is a bigger pain.

George
"Cirene" <ci****@nowhere.comwrote in message
news:eO****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
I'm trying to convince my client that MySQL server is not the way to go
for his project. Here are some reasons why...
- If you use the MySQL Connector you are bound to GPL (unless you want to
pay $$$)
- Doesn't work as good "out of the box" with Visual Studio 2008

Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking
about using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited. Any
thoughts?

Thanks!
Sep 13 '08 #4
"George" <no*****@comcast.netwrote in message
news:Or**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

[top-posting corrected]
>Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking
about using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited. Any
thoughts?

Yes, it means more pain for you as a developer
Why?
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Sep 13 '08 #5
Is this a money issue strictly? And do you know if the company has looked at
all of the angles about cost.

Why I ask is I do not see that one should get ammo to sell someone on a
particular database server. I do believe one should know all of the facts
and be able to counter false perceptions, however. Here is my two cents.

One can go very cheap with MySQL, if they do not purchase any support. But
that is cheap on the server side and does not take in account the costs
associated with employees to program and maintain or the education needed if
the employees do not have MySQL experience. This impact has to be included
in the mix. Long term ROI might be realized, but you might find the cost of
spinning employees to be fairly high. You can solve this with consultants,
but if your market is not heavy on MySQL experience, this comes at a
premium. How much? Can't say with your market.

Now, suppose you go to supported MySQL, which is a wise path, instead of
just download and install. Is it still cheaper? Depends on how you license.
MySQL is a yearly charge ranging from $600 per server to $5000 per server.
At each level, you get additional features. At the highest levels you get
consulting support, faster turnaround time and indemnification. When you
compare to the costs of SQL Server, you can get it fairly cheap under SPLA,
although there is an initial cost added to the per proc cost. Long term,
however, the cost is cheaper.

All of these factor into a decision.

You also have to factor in features you need. If you want simple reporting,
there is another product your team has to learn and the potential of
support. Same for OLAP features. If you are not using them, they don't
factor in, but these features are not included in MySQL out of the box and
will factor in if you use them. This all effects cost of the system.

Back to the employees? Do they know MySQL? If so, there may not be a big
issue. If not, there are training costs. It might be classroom training or
OTJT, but it still has a cost associated. Perhaps it is just lost
productivity, which is a soft cost, but it is still a cost. Often management
sees extra employee time that is not aimed at a solution as part of the
fixed cost of business and forget that learning time takes away from
productive time.

If your management is going to MySQL because they can download it for free
and that is the sole issue, I think you should educate them. If they have
thought out the rest of the story, you are fighting an uphill battle and may
be on the wrong side of this war. Just make sure you are approaching this
sensibly.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

Subscribe to my blog
http://feeds.feedburner.com/GregoryBeamer#

or just read it:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/GregoryBeamer

********************************************
| Think outside the box! |
********************************************
"Cirene" <ci****@nowhere.comwrote in message
news:eO****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
I'm trying to convince my client that MySQL server is not the way to go
for his project. Here are some reasons why...
- If you use the MySQL Connector you are bound to GPL (unless you want to
pay $$$)
- Doesn't work as good "out of the box" with Visual Studio 2008

Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking
about using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited. Any
thoughts?

Thanks!
Sep 13 '08 #6

"Mark Rae [MVP]" <ma**@markNOSPAMrae.netwrote in message
news:Oy**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
"George" <no*****@comcast.netwrote in message
news:Or**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

[top-posting corrected]
>>Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking
about using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited. Any
thoughts?

Yes, it means more pain for you as a developer

Why?

--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

What do you mean why? Why more pain for the developer? Simply because he
might have never worked with it and chances are --- he did not.

If you ask me to do something on MySql i would not know where to start
without googling..
I have no idea how to connect to it. Have no idea if there is a GUI to work
with it.
Have no idea how to create a Database there. Have no idea how to create
index. Have no idea if MySql supports SELECT TOP, or SubQueries (SELECT..
FROM (SELECT...))

If i had worked with MySql even once i would probably know answer to many
questions but..... I do not!
George

Sep 13 '08 #7
Greg,

Thats gonna make a cracking Blog posting.

Regards

John Timney (MVP)
http://www.johntimney.com
http://www.johntimney.com/blog
"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <No************@comcast.netNoSpamMwrote in
message news:u9**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Is this a money issue strictly? And do you know if the company has looked
at all of the angles about cost.

Why I ask is I do not see that one should get ammo to sell someone on a
particular database server. I do believe one should know all of the facts
and be able to counter false perceptions, however. Here is my two cents.

One can go very cheap with MySQL, if they do not purchase any support. But
that is cheap on the server side and does not take in account the costs
associated with employees to program and maintain or the education needed
if the employees do not have MySQL experience. This impact has to be
included in the mix. Long term ROI might be realized, but you might find
the cost of spinning employees to be fairly high. You can solve this with
consultants, but if your market is not heavy on MySQL experience, this
comes at a premium. How much? Can't say with your market.

Now, suppose you go to supported MySQL, which is a wise path, instead of
just download and install. Is it still cheaper? Depends on how you
license. MySQL is a yearly charge ranging from $600 per server to $5000
per server. At each level, you get additional features. At the highest
levels you get consulting support, faster turnaround time and
indemnification. When you compare to the costs of SQL Server, you can get
it fairly cheap under SPLA, although there is an initial cost added to the
per proc cost. Long term, however, the cost is cheaper.

All of these factor into a decision.

You also have to factor in features you need. If you want simple
reporting, there is another product your team has to learn and the
potential of support. Same for OLAP features. If you are not using them,
they don't factor in, but these features are not included in MySQL out of
the box and will factor in if you use them. This all effects cost of the
system.

Back to the employees? Do they know MySQL? If so, there may not be a big
issue. If not, there are training costs. It might be classroom training or
OTJT, but it still has a cost associated. Perhaps it is just lost
productivity, which is a soft cost, but it is still a cost. Often
management sees extra employee time that is not aimed at a solution as
part of the fixed cost of business and forget that learning time takes
away from productive time.

If your management is going to MySQL because they can download it for free
and that is the sole issue, I think you should educate them. If they have
thought out the rest of the story, you are fighting an uphill battle and
may be on the wrong side of this war. Just make sure you are approaching
this sensibly.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

Subscribe to my blog
http://feeds.feedburner.com/GregoryBeamer#

or just read it:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/GregoryBeamer

********************************************
| Think outside the box! |
********************************************
"Cirene" <ci****@nowhere.comwrote in message
news:eO****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I'm trying to convince my client that MySQL server is not the way to go
for his project. Here are some reasons why...
- If you use the MySQL Connector you are bound to GPL (unless you want to
pay $$$)
- Doesn't work as good "out of the box" with Visual Studio 2008

Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking
about using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited. Any
thoughts?

Thanks!

Sep 13 '08 #8
re:
!Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL?

Because SQL Server can achieve much more throughput than MySQL?

Here's a feature comparison between them :
http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2...are-mysql.aspx

re:
!I was thinking about using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited

Your client is mistaken.

SQL Express can handle quite heavy data loads,
as long as you don't need multiple processors and/or 4GB data storage.

( 4 GB data storage is quite a bit of storage... )

At one time I thought that it couldn't, so I pushed the question up the Microsoft ranks.

The SQL Server Dev Team was quite emphatic about
SQL Express being able to handle large data demands.

Here's a feature comparison chart which you might want to show your client :

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinf...-features.mspx

Most small to medium sites data requirements can be serviced by SQL Express.


Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
======================================
"Cirene" <ci****@nowhere.comwrote in message news:eO****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
I'm trying to convince my client that MySQL server is not the way to go for his project. Here are some reasons why...
- If you use the MySQL Connector you are bound to GPL (unless you want to pay $$$)
- Doesn't work as good "out of the box" with Visual Studio 2008

Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking about using SQL Express, but my client says
it's too limited. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Sep 13 '08 #9
"George" <no*****@comcast.netwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking
about using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited. Any
thoughts?

Yes, it means more pain for you as a developer

Why?

What do you mean why? Why more pain for the developer? Simply because he
might have never worked with it and chances are --- he did not.
Working with one RDBMS for which there is a native .NET data provider is no
more "painful" than working with any another RDBMS for which there is a
native .NET data provider - this is one of the design goals of ADO.NET...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Sep 13 '08 #10
It's not always about ADO when you work with DB.
The SQL language itself is different. DB is different.
Like if you want to use GetDate() function for example... I doubt that it
exists in MySql. May be it does but have different name...

Or i am used to use "Identity" filed in MS SQL. And is there such thing in
MySql? I do not know... I can tell that not every DB has them. I worked with
AS400 and it did not have it.

I am not saying it's not possible to work with MySql in .NET. It's possible.
But developer will have to go through some "pain" if he never worked with
MySql...

George

"Mark Rae [MVP]" <ma**@markNOSPAMrae.netwrote in message
news:Og**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
"George" <no*****@comcast.netwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking
about using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited. Any
thoughts?

Yes, it means more pain for you as a developer

Why?

What do you mean why? Why more pain for the developer? Simply because he
might have never worked with it and chances are --- he did not.

Working with one RDBMS for which there is a native .NET data provider is
no more "painful" than working with any another RDBMS for which there is a
native .NET data provider - this is one of the design goals of ADO.NET...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net
Sep 14 '08 #11
"George" <no*****@comcast.netwrote in message
news:OS**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

[top-posting corrected]
>>>>Yes, it means more pain for you as a developer

Why?

What do you mean why? Why more pain for the developer? Simply because he
might have never worked with it and chances are --- he did not.

Working with one RDBMS for which there is a native .NET data provider is
no more "painful" than working with any another RDBMS for which there is
a native .NET data provider - this is one of the design goals of
ADO.NET...

It's not always about ADO when you work with DB.
The SQL language itself is different. DB is different.
Like if you want to use GetDate() function for example... I doubt that it
exists in MySql.
Of course it does - why would you imagine that it wouldn't...?
Or i am used to use "Identity" filed in MS SQL. And is there such thing in
MySql?
There are...
I am not saying it's not possible to work with MySql in .NET. It's
possible. But developer will have to go through some "pain" if he never
worked with MySql...
And what if the developer had never worked with SQL Server...?
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Sep 14 '08 #12

"Mark Rae [MVP]" <ma**@markNOSPAMrae.netwrote in message
news:ek**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
"George" <no*****@comcast.netwrote in message
news:OS**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

[top-posting corrected]
>>>>>Yes, it means more pain for you as a developer
>
Why?

What do you mean why? Why more pain for the developer? Simply because
he might have never worked with it and chances are --- he did not.

Working with one RDBMS for which there is a native .NET data provider is
no more "painful" than working with any another RDBMS for which there is
a native .NET data provider - this is one of the design goals of
ADO.NET...

It's not always about ADO when you work with DB.
The SQL language itself is different. DB is different.
Like if you want to use GetDate() function for example... I doubt that it
exists in MySql.

Of course it does - why would you imagine that it wouldn't...?
>Or i am used to use "Identity" filed in MS SQL. And is there such thing
in MySql?

There are...
>I am not saying it's not possible to work with MySql in .NET. It's
possible. But developer will have to go through some "pain" if he never
worked with MySql...

And what if the developer had never worked with SQL Server...?
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net
Are you killing me? ...
Just to recap..
The guy asked the newsgroup to help him convince the client to use MsSql
instead of MySql. I suggested him otherwise and with some "pain" write his
application using MySql since most likely customer has expertise in MySql
and in a long run it all comes down to support.
You started asking "Why pain" and i tried to explain that it's not just
switching ADO.NET Providers when switching databases from MsSql to another.

Now you asking what if developer never worked with SQL Server???? Then it's
going to be really bad for pour client of his...

George.

Sep 14 '08 #13
"John Timney (MVP)" <xy******@timney.eclipse.co.ukwrote in message
news:j4******************************@eclipse.net. uk...
Thats gonna make a cracking Blog posting.
Is your entire website down at the moment...?
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Sep 14 '08 #14
Thanks everyone for your insight and comments. I will take everyone's
comments into consideration!

Take care...

"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <No************@comcast.netNoSpamMwrote in
message news:u9**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Is this a money issue strictly? And do you know if the company has looked
at all of the angles about cost.

Why I ask is I do not see that one should get ammo to sell someone on a
particular database server. I do believe one should know all of the facts
and be able to counter false perceptions, however. Here is my two cents.

One can go very cheap with MySQL, if they do not purchase any support. But
that is cheap on the server side and does not take in account the costs
associated with employees to program and maintain or the education needed
if the employees do not have MySQL experience. This impact has to be
included in the mix. Long term ROI might be realized, but you might find
the cost of spinning employees to be fairly high. You can solve this with
consultants, but if your market is not heavy on MySQL experience, this
comes at a premium. How much? Can't say with your market.

Now, suppose you go to supported MySQL, which is a wise path, instead of
just download and install. Is it still cheaper? Depends on how you
license. MySQL is a yearly charge ranging from $600 per server to $5000
per server. At each level, you get additional features. At the highest
levels you get consulting support, faster turnaround time and
indemnification. When you compare to the costs of SQL Server, you can get
it fairly cheap under SPLA, although there is an initial cost added to the
per proc cost. Long term, however, the cost is cheaper.

All of these factor into a decision.

You also have to factor in features you need. If you want simple
reporting, there is another product your team has to learn and the
potential of support. Same for OLAP features. If you are not using them,
they don't factor in, but these features are not included in MySQL out of
the box and will factor in if you use them. This all effects cost of the
system.

Back to the employees? Do they know MySQL? If so, there may not be a big
issue. If not, there are training costs. It might be classroom training or
OTJT, but it still has a cost associated. Perhaps it is just lost
productivity, which is a soft cost, but it is still a cost. Often
management sees extra employee time that is not aimed at a solution as
part of the fixed cost of business and forget that learning time takes
away from productive time.

If your management is going to MySQL because they can download it for free
and that is the sole issue, I think you should educate them. If they have
thought out the rest of the story, you are fighting an uphill battle and
may be on the wrong side of this war. Just make sure you are approaching
this sensibly.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

Subscribe to my blog
http://feeds.feedburner.com/GregoryBeamer#

or just read it:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/GregoryBeamer

********************************************
| Think outside the box! |
********************************************
"Cirene" <ci****@nowhere.comwrote in message
news:eO****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I'm trying to convince my client that MySQL server is not the way to go
for his project. Here are some reasons why...
- If you use the MySQL Connector you are bound to GPL (unless you want to
pay $$$)
- Doesn't work as good "out of the box" with Visual Studio 2008

Any other reasons why SQL Server is better than MySQL? I was thinking
about using SQL Express, but my client says it's too limited. Any
thoughts?

Thanks!

Sep 15 '08 #15
Sso it would seem. I was wondering why my google stats had gone a bit
quiet.

Regards

John Timney (MVP)
http://www.johntimney.com
http://www.johntimney.com/blog

"Mark Rae [MVP]" <ma**@markNOSPAMrae.netwrote in message
news:uo**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
"John Timney (MVP)" <xy******@timney.eclipse.co.ukwrote in message
news:j4******************************@eclipse.net. uk...
>Thats gonna make a cracking Blog posting.

Is your entire website down at the moment...?
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

Sep 16 '08 #16

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