Localization still a pain?

[CMM]

I don't seem to "get" ASP.NET 2.0's Localization features. I've read up on
everything... and of course, everything is explained in cursory softball
terms- not any "real-world" usage way.

I hope someone can give me a clue...

Questions:

1) Do my eyes deceive me or is it true that localization is still totally
utterly disengaged from the Designer and Property Editor... either in source
or design view. I mean, the "expression bound" Text property of a control
allows me to change its text but it is not reflected in the page's RESX file
and at runtime the text is ignored? Shouldn't designer changes like this
update the neutral (default) RESX file for the page? Am I doing something
wrong?

In other words, the PropertyEditor does not update the neutral RESX file?...
it must always be modified manually? I find that inconceivable. I'm about to
throw ASP.NET out the window and ask MS to refund my company's $20000 worth
of MSDN subscriptions.

2) Binding to *Global Resources* can't be done via the Expressions Editor?
Shouldn't the ClassKey item be a dropdown.... or do I have to type in
everything manually from memory (this same annoyance applies to the
braindead CssClass property elsewhere).

3) Can superflous property bindings be safely deleted from the automatically
generated RESX file. For instance, I can't see why the Value property of
controls is automatically bound as most of the time this is used as a
behind-the-scenes hardcoded value and would confuse human beings responsible
for translating the files. In other words, what the best way to "clean up"
these nasty RESX files?

I truly hope I am missing something here.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com

[CMM]

The answer to #3 is yes. Since the "generated" resx file (Tools | Generate
Local Resource) is absolutely, ridiculously braindead and only LOOSELY
associated with the ASPX page, it is possible delete items from it at will.

Unfortunately, what this also means is that adding controls to a page are
not added to the resx file either. At all points after generating the resx
file, it's all up to you to keep it up to date.

So in essense, Localization in ASP.NET 2.0 is not really any advancement to
anything we've seen in the last 10 years. In fact, it absolutely lacks
vision and was designed by idiots. Almost ANY proprietary solution you come
up with using XML files and 4 or 5 lines of code is better than what the
ASP.NET guys came up with.
--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"CMM" <cm*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

I don't seem to "get" ASP.NET 2.0's Localization features. I've read up on
everything... and of course, everything is explained in cursory softball
terms- not any "real-world" usage way.

I hope someone can give me a clue...

Questions:

1) Do my eyes deceive me or is it true that localization is still totally
utterly disengaged from the Designer and Property Editor... either in
source or design view. I mean, the "expression bound" Text property of a
control allows me to change its text but it is not reflected in the page's
RESX file and at runtime the text is ignored? Shouldn't designer changes
like this update the neutral (default) RESX file for the page? Am I doing
something wrong?

In other words, the PropertyEditor does not update the neutral RESX
file?... it must always be modified manually? I find that inconceivable.
I'm about to throw ASP.NET out the window and ask MS to refund my
company's $20000 worth of MSDN subscriptions.

2) Binding to *Global Resources* can't be done via the Expressions Editor?
Shouldn't the ClassKey item be a dropdown.... or do I have to type in
everything manually from memory (this same annoyance applies to the
braindead CssClass property elsewhere).

3) Can superflous property bindings be safely deleted from the
automatically generated RESX file. For instance, I can't see why the Value
property of controls is automatically bound as most of the time this is
used as a behind-the-scenes hardcoded value and would confuse human beings
responsible for translating the files. In other words, what the best way
to "clean up" these nasty RESX files?

I truly hope I am missing something here.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com

[Karl Seguin [MVP]]

I'm not impressed with what's been done in 2.0 either. I still vastly prefer
my custom resource manager with localized server controls:
http://openmymind.net/index.aspx?documentId=3
http://openmymind.net/index.aspx?documentId=4
http://openmymind.net/index.aspx?documentId=52

In my mind, the real way Microsoft could add value to the problem area is by
provider better (or some) tools to support the maintenance and translation
process.

Karl

--
http://www.openmymind.net/
http://www.fuelindustries.com/
"CMM" <cm*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Ow**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

The answer to #3 is yes. Since the "generated" resx file (Tools | Generate
Local Resource) is absolutely, ridiculously braindead and only LOOSELY
associated with the ASPX page, it is possible delete items from it at
will.

Unfortunately, what this also means is that adding controls to a page are
not added to the resx file either. At all points after generating the resx
file, it's all up to you to keep it up to date.

So in essense, Localization in ASP.NET 2.0 is not really any advancement
to anything we've seen in the last 10 years. In fact, it absolutely lacks
vision and was designed by idiots. Almost ANY proprietary solution you
come up with using XML files and 4 or 5 lines of code is better than what
the ASP.NET guys came up with.
--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"CMM" <cm*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

I don't seem to "get" ASP.NET 2.0's Localization features. I've read up on
everything... and of course, everything is explained in cursory softball
terms- not any "real-world" usage way.

I hope someone can give me a clue...

Questions:

1) Do my eyes deceive me or is it true that localization is still totally
utterly disengaged from the Designer and Property Editor... either in
source or design view. I mean, the "expression bound" Text property of a
control allows me to change its text but it is not reflected in the
page's RESX file and at runtime the text is ignored? Shouldn't designer
changes like this update the neutral (default) RESX file for the page? Am
I doing something wrong?

In other words, the PropertyEditor does not update the neutral RESX
file?... it must always be modified manually? I find that inconceivable.
I'm about to throw ASP.NET out the window and ask MS to refund my
company's $20000 worth of MSDN subscriptions.

2) Binding to *Global Resources* can't be done via the Expressions
Editor? Shouldn't the ClassKey item be a dropdown.... or do I have to
type in everything manually from memory (this same annoyance applies to
the braindead CssClass property elsewhere).

3) Can superflous property bindings be safely deleted from the
automatically generated RESX file. For instance, I can't see why the
Value property of controls is automatically bound as most of the time
this is used as a behind-the-scenes hardcoded value and would confuse
human beings responsible for translating the files. In other words, what
the best way to "clean up" these nasty RESX files?

I truly hope I am missing something here.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com

[CMM]

I find it a little insulting that the localization features in 2.0 are
touted as marketing bullet points. Also funny as their examples never go
beyond the scope of a one-page kiddy web site. But, in truth, Localization
in 2.0 is pretty much an after-thought and practically non-existant.

After-the-fact tools to aid in the actual translation would also be
welcomed... even just *simple* tools.... like how do we organize and send
these gazillion XML files to our office in Japan?.... and how do we clean
them so as not to confuse the translaters? i.e. the "implicit expressions"
implementation is downright retarded and yields impossibly obtuse resx
files. The implementation of it (not so much the idea of it) was written by
a monkey.

But, really, what irks me is the lack of integration with the designer....
that is just plain unforgivable. It's 2006... they should be able to get
this right by now. How hard is it have the Property Editor store your
localizable properties in a the neutral resx file on-the-fly? Why is resx
generation a one way trip?

P.S.
I know a lot of people like 2.0... but as an upgrade.... 2.0 is one of the
worse "improvements" I have ever seen come from Microsoft (great CLR
improvements notwithstanding.... I'm talking ASP.NET proper here).

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"Karl Seguin [MVP]" <karl REMOVE @ REMOVE openmymind REMOVEMETOO . ANDME
net> wrote in message news:e1**************@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

I'm not impressed with what's been done in 2.0 either. I still vastly
prefer my custom resource manager with localized server controls:
http://openmymind.net/index.aspx?documentId=3
http://openmymind.net/index.aspx?documentId=4
http://openmymind.net/index.aspx?documentId=52

In my mind, the real way Microsoft could add value to the problem area is
by provider better (or some) tools to support the maintenance and
translation process.

Karl

--
http://www.openmymind.net/
http://www.fuelindustries.com/
"CMM" <cm*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Ow**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

The answer to #3 is yes. Since the "generated" resx file (Tools |
Generate Local Resource) is absolutely, ridiculously braindead and only
LOOSELY associated with the ASPX page, it is possible delete items from
it at will.

Unfortunately, what this also means is that adding controls to a page are
not added to the resx file either. At all points after generating the
resx file, it's all up to you to keep it up to date.

So in essense, Localization in ASP.NET 2.0 is not really any advancement
to anything we've seen in the last 10 years. In fact, it absolutely lacks
vision and was designed by idiots. Almost ANY proprietary solution you
come up with using XML files and 4 or 5 lines of code is better than what
the ASP.NET guys came up with.
--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"CMM" <cm*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

I don't seem to "get" ASP.NET 2.0's Localization features. I've read up
on everything... and of course, everything is explained in cursory
softball terms- not any "real-world" usage way.

I hope someone can give me a clue...

Questions:

1) Do my eyes deceive me or is it true that localization is still
totally utterly disengaged from the Designer and Property Editor...
either in source or design view. I mean, the "expression bound" Text
property of a control allows me to change its text but it is not
reflected in the page's RESX file and at runtime the text is ignored?
Shouldn't designer changes like this update the neutral (default) RESX
file for the page? Am I doing something wrong?

In other words, the PropertyEditor does not update the neutral RESX
file?... it must always be modified manually? I find that inconceivable.
I'm about to throw ASP.NET out the window and ask MS to refund my
company's $20000 worth of MSDN subscriptions.

2) Binding to *Global Resources* can't be done via the Expressions
Editor? Shouldn't the ClassKey item be a dropdown.... or do I have to
type in everything manually from memory (this same annoyance applies to
the braindead CssClass property elsewhere).

3) Can superflous property bindings be safely deleted from the
automatically generated RESX file. For instance, I can't see why the
Value property of controls is automatically bound as most of the time
this is used as a behind-the-scenes hardcoded value and would confuse
human beings responsible for translating the files. In other words, what
the best way to "clean up" these nasty RESX files?

I truly hope I am missing something here.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com

[CMM]

BTW, localization seems to work better in Windows Forms. The Designer keeps
the resources up to date on-the-fly even allowing you to choose visually
which resource is the active one in the Designer (either the default neutral
one or some other one).

The ASP.NET team needs to take some serious cues from the WinForms guys as
to how to build a proper Visual Designer. Heck, even the FrontPage guys down
the hall would be better than what they have now.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"CMM" <cm*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uI**************@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

I find it a little insulting that the localization features in 2.0 are
touted as marketing bullet points. Also funny as their examples never go
beyond the scope of a one-page kiddy web site. But, in truth, Localization
in 2.0 is pretty much an after-thought and practically non-existant.

After-the-fact tools to aid in the actual translation would also be
welcomed... even just *simple* tools.... like how do we organize and send
these gazillion XML files to our office in Japan?.... and how do we clean
them so as not to confuse the translaters? i.e. the "implicit expressions"
implementation is downright retarded and yields impossibly obtuse resx
files. The implementation of it (not so much the idea of it) was written
by a monkey.

But, really, what irks me is the lack of integration with the designer....
that is just plain unforgivable. It's 2006... they should be able to get
this right by now. How hard is it have the Property Editor store your
localizable properties in a the neutral resx file on-the-fly? Why is resx
generation a one way trip?

P.S.
I know a lot of people like 2.0... but as an upgrade.... 2.0 is one of the
worse "improvements" I have ever seen come from Microsoft (great CLR
improvements notwithstanding.... I'm talking ASP.NET proper here).

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"Karl Seguin [MVP]" <karl REMOVE @ REMOVE openmymind REMOVEMETOO . ANDME
net> wrote in message news:e1**************@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

I'm not impressed with what's been done in 2.0 either. I still vastly
prefer my custom resource manager with localized server controls:
http://openmymind.net/index.aspx?documentId=3
http://openmymind.net/index.aspx?documentId=4
http://openmymind.net/index.aspx?documentId=52

In my mind, the real way Microsoft could add value to the problem area is
by provider better (or some) tools to support the maintenance and
translation process.

Karl

--
http://www.openmymind.net/
http://www.fuelindustries.com/
"CMM" <cm*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Ow**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

The answer to #3 is yes. Since the "generated" resx file (Tools |
Generate Local Resource) is absolutely, ridiculously braindead and only
LOOSELY associated with the ASPX page, it is possible delete items from
it at will.

Unfortunately, what this also means is that adding controls to a page
are not added to the resx file either. At all points after generating
the resx file, it's all up to you to keep it up to date.

So in essense, Localization in ASP.NET 2.0 is not really any advancement
to anything we've seen in the last 10 years. In fact, it absolutely
lacks vision and was designed by idiots. Almost ANY proprietary solution
you come up with using XML files and 4 or 5 lines of code is better than
what the ASP.NET guys came up with.
--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com
"CMM" <cm*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
I don't seem to "get" ASP.NET 2.0's Localization features. I've read up
on everything... and of course, everything is explained in cursory
softball terms- not any "real-world" usage way.

I hope someone can give me a clue...

Questions:

1) Do my eyes deceive me or is it true that localization is still
totally utterly disengaged from the Designer and Property Editor...
either in source or design view. I mean, the "expression bound" Text
property of a control allows me to change its text but it is not
reflected in the page's RESX file and at runtime the text is ignored?
Shouldn't designer changes like this update the neutral (default) RESX
file for the page? Am I doing something wrong?

In other words, the PropertyEditor does not update the neutral RESX
file?... it must always be modified manually? I find that
inconceivable. I'm about to throw ASP.NET out the window and ask MS to
refund my company's $20000 worth of MSDN subscriptions.

2) Binding to *Global Resources* can't be done via the Expressions
Editor? Shouldn't the ClassKey item be a dropdown.... or do I have to
type in everything manually from memory (this same annoyance applies to
the braindead CssClass property elsewhere).

3) Can superflous property bindings be safely deleted from the
automatically generated RESX file. For instance, I can't see why the
Value property of controls is automatically bound as most of the time
this is used as a behind-the-scenes hardcoded value and would confuse
human beings responsible for translating the files. In other words,
what the best way to "clean up" these nasty RESX files?

I truly hope I am missing something here.

--
-C. Moya
www.cmoya.com

[prabhupr]

Does anybody know of any tool that can do the resource string
translation, I mean you pass the XML file and it will give you resource
string in the desired language.
As of date I use bablefish to do translation, if the file gets huge its
a manula task which I hate :)